Civil War in Ukraine?

[Reza_Rahmani]

Thanks for the input, Jenna. What do you have to say about corruption in the Ukrainian government?

Reza

[Jennacarana]

Corruption? Well, it's there ! From what I can tell its not much different than the corruption going on in every part of the Former Soviet Union. Bribe-taking (which, according to one Russian official "must not be confused w/corruption"!!), extortion, mafia....nothing new. Its a bad thing, and I doubt if bribe-taking will ever be completely eliminated there, it seems to be quite an old tradition in that part of the world . Its something that must be dealt with but personally I don't really see that its at all unique to Ukraine.

[NZman]

Has you dudes ever read anything on Eastern Europe or is you just predisposed to a Russo centric point of view

Maybe if you dudes scanned CER or RFE/RL once in a while you be in the picture as regards Eastern Europe.

My Boss is a Ukrainian and our Eastern European head office is in Kiev, so is seeing' in to Ukrainian affairs daily. (Not always of my choice)

So I is looking for the evidence for all of this bilge and then when you has posted it I is coming back to whip some butt.

Oh yes to the div-let with the over use of the. If you is going for my record on bad gramma' the cool , otherwise there int a the in Ukraine. Just as there int a the Russia.

Love the NZman

[Jennacarana]

"Has you dudes ever read anything on Eastern Europe"

Uh, well, I am working on a DEGREE in Eastern European Studies, and I just finished an appx. 14-page paper on the subject of Russian-Ukrainian tension in Ukraine, so yeah, I kinda have read about it, and I've studyed in Ukraine. I'm no EXPERT, but I think I'm informed enough to post here...

As for evidence, here's the sources I used for my paper, you can check it out yourself:

Arel, Domanique. Ukraine: The Temptation of the nationalizing State. The International Politics of Eurasia, vol. 7: Political Culture and Civil Society in Russia and the New States of Eurasia. Ed. Vladimir Tismaneanu. Armonk: M.E. Sharpe 1995.

Cowley, Andrew. “Fault Lines.” The Economist. Vol. 331, Is. 7862, London: May 7, 1994

Golovakha, Evgenii. Panina, Natalia. Churilov, Nikolai. “Russians in Ukraine.” The New Russian Diaspora. Ed. by Vladimir Shlapentokh, Munir Sendich, and Emil Payin. Armonk: M.E.Sharpe, 1994

Jaworsky, John. “Ukraine: Stability and Instability.” McNair Paper 42. National Defense University: August 1995. [online]. Available: <URL: http://www.ndu.edu/ndu/inss/macnair/.../m042cont.html

Kubicek, Paul. “Regional Polarisation in Ukraine: Public Opinion, Voting and Legislative Behaviour.” Europe-Asia Studies, vol. 52, No. 2, 2000

”Looking Into the Abyss.” The Economist. Vol. 331.Is. 7865, London: May 28, 1994

Pirie, Paul S. “National Identity and Politics in Southern and Eastern Ukraine.” Europe-Asia Studies, vol. 48, No. 7,1996

Resler, Tamara J. “Dilemmas of Democratisation:Safeguarding Minorities in Russia, Ukraine, and Lithuania.” Europe-Asia Studies, vol. 49, no. 1, 1997

UNA-UNSO website [English version]. “Revolution from Couture.” [online] Available:
<URL: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill...1/d-kut-e.html

UNA-UNSO website [English version]. “Doctrine of Destabilization.” [online] Available:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill.../doctr-en.html

Wilson, Andrew. The Ukrainians: Unexpected Nation. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2000

If you want to post your exact criticisms, the things you disagree with, please do so and we can have a nice debate. Keep in mind, too, that if your boss is your only (or even your main) source on Ukraine, he may be biased one way or another.

Frankly, I don't see how the bulk of posts here are so Russo-centric. There are a few, but it seems most are pretty objective.

Jennacarana

[NZman]

Chill Dude,

So you has done (doing) a degree, I is well impressed, Did you study at CREES?

My boss did his first degree there His second at London Uni.. As I has gone on from there I is learned that your first degree if we is talking about knowing anythin' is worth nowt. It's total botty. You is gonna learn that if you is studying further.

I to is getting Dom's UKL and has read all of Wilson work, my bird knows him. Is you not aware that apathy is the order of the day in Ukrainesville. Maybes you should mail ole Dom and he'll fill you in on the real picture. Oh yes, just 'cos' I is livin' in Slovenia dunt mean I is an expert on the gaff.

My boss int my only souse on Ukrainesville I has been there meself to show (a number of times) the dudes in my company one end of a DSP from another. As for him being biased I dunt doubt he is, but no more so than the Russophiles on here. & as I int him & is an ethnic Serb I is having a more open opinion.

What is you thinking about the apathy. I is holdin' my wind for your reply

Love the NZman

[Jennacarana]

Apathy? Well, the folks in Kyiv seemed pretty ordinary, there wasn't much in the line of ethnic tension or anything. In Kyiv people speak mostly Russian and write in Ukrainian, I agree, there is seemed mostly people are worried about the economy and of course the extra-curricular journalistic decapitations by the president (Kuchma). Kyiv though is itself a pretty self-contained unit, like New York City or Washington in the U.S., and you can't really use it as a label for the rest of the country. Mostly I was going on studies and stuff done by other people.

But I can say that for the one weekend I spent in L'viv (western Ukraine), there was so much Ukrainian nationalism in the air you could just about smell it. I personally witnessed two anti-Kuchma demonstrations in one day, and I don't doubt that there were more. Both the professor escorting our group around the city and one of the students who were with us were pretty obviously nationalistic and anything but apathetic. The professor, in fact, would just about have us believe that Galicia is the center of the universe, to hear him talk. I dunno, I just can't say that it was apathy.

Thanks and take care,
Jennacarana