Russia and the West

[American Metal]

Originally Posted by henrylee100

depends on what you mean by dangerous. The US for one seems like a very dangerous state at the moment with their policies of agressive expansion and democratization by force. I'd like to remind you that back when Gorby agreed to let go of East Germany and Eastern Europe Washington promised him in return that NATO would not expand eastward and that the "freed" eastern european states would remain "neutral". Naturally Gorby was either stupid enough or oiled enough not to ask for this promise to be made out in writing because sure enough NATO has been expanding big time. Today in order to get from Russian to the Kaliningrad region by train we need to have travel passports and get transit visas from Lithuania.
I personally don't particularly like the Kremli gang (cause that's what they are, a bunch of cheap thugs) and there's a host of issues about Russian that I'm not at all fond of, but the west, or let as be more specific the US, seem intent on making the lives of ordinary Russians even more miserable.

I'm not so sure about that, because it seems that WE in the U.S. have become the aggressors.
We are the ones who are paranoid.

[henrylee100]

Originally Posted by American Metal

I'm not so sure about that, because it seems that WE in the U.S. have become the aggressors.
We are the ones who are paranoid.

paranoia is infections I guess, but there's nothing paranoid about us having to get visas to travel to Kaliningrad that thing is for real and it sucks especially in light of the fact that Americans don't need visas to travel to Lithuania.

[Kolya]

Originally Posted by Pensacane

As an American, my view of Russia in relation to the West is obscured. I know differences exist between "the West" (US, Western Europe) and Russia. I would like to discuss what those differences are. (cultural and idealogical)

Also, does Russia see a need to join the West economically and politically as it often sees Islamic nations to the south and China as threats? Or could Russia be holding on to old suspicions due to the perceived threat from the West?

Perhaps the problem with Russia is that some of it's smaller neighbours are trying to restart the Cold War between Russia and the West in order to join the West and benefit from it's largesse. Without any such conflict, these countries will be unimportant to the West. And the West won't do much to help them.

They can see how much the Baltic Republics and former Warsaw Pact countries have benefitted, when these countries joined the West after the last Cold War. And of course, they wouldn't mind at all making Russia look like the enemy of the West in order to join the West the same way.

Perhaps Russia can have friendly relations with countries such as Germany, Great Britain, and France. But many Eropean countries closer to Russia's borders harbor animosities against Russia. And their participation in the European Union will interfere with good cooperation between Russia and the EU. Russia will have to look outside the West for friends and allies.

China hasn't done anything to threaten Russia either politically or militarily. And China's growing economy in need of oil and natural resources makes Russia a natural trading partner of China.

I don't think most Russians are afraid that NATO will some day attack them the way NATO attacked Serbia not so long ago. But Russians can see that they are being surrounded by unfriendly countries who are looking for and getting some assistance from the West. And to avoid political and possibly economic isolation, Russians have no choice but to look for friends among countries outside the West.

Perhaps that's why Russians feel a needs to be friends with Iran, China, Venezuela, and North Korea.

[omygod]

Originally Posted by Kolya

But many Eropean countries closer to Russia's borders harbor animosities against Russia.

Hmmm..., I wonder why? Perhaps it was not such a good idea for Russians to rape Baltic women and east european women, kill their family, and send Baltic europeans and east europeans to Siberia. Now it's payback time.

[Kolya]

Originally Posted by omygod

Hmmm..., I wonder why? Perhaps it was not such a good idea for Russians to rape Baltic women and east european women, kill their family, and send Baltic europeans and east europeans to Siberia. Now it's payback time.

Perhaps they are paying back the wrong people. The USSR at that time was made up of 12 republics with people of many different nationalities. The Red Army was made up of people from all of these republics. And Joseph Stalin who was the supreme dictator of USSR at that time was a Georgian from Georgia.

When you need an excuse to hate Russians in order to gain some benefit out of it, then why let the truth stand in the way?

[omygod]

Originally Posted by Kolya

The USSR at that time was made up of 12 republics with people of many different nationalities. The Red Army was made up of people from all of these republics. And Joseph Stalin who was the supreme dictator of USSR at that time was a Georgian from Georgia.

This does not remove the role Russians played in the atrocity against Baltic europeans and east europeans.
Even you can't deny the role Russians played during that period of history.

[Kolya]

Originally Posted by omygod

This does not remove the role Russians played in the atrocity against Baltic europeans and east europeans.
Even you can't deny the role Russians played during that period of history.

The commander in chief is more responsible than anybody else, especially if he happens to be an absolute dictator as Joseph Stalin was. And Joseph Stalin was a Georgian, not a Russian.

But just because some people belonging to a certain nationality did something wrong doesn't mean that all people of that nationality are somehow responsible. People are individually responsible for what they have done. And blaming everybody regardless of whether they've done anything wrong or not is irrational and grossly unfair.

It would be unfair to blame you, if your neighbor has murdered someone. And in the same way it is unfair to blame all those Russians who didn't do anything wrong, including those who weren't even born at that time. Most Russians living in Russia now weren't even born when those events took place.

The only way you can avoid irrational ethnic hatred is to blame only those people who actually did something wrong and abstain from blaming anybody else.

Perhaps the most fair and reasonable way to assign responsibility would be to say that Soviet Communists were the ones who did it. They were the ones in control, they made the decision to do it, and they were the ones who made sure it was done they way they wanted it done.

Focusing on various nationalities and ethnic groups and taking revenge against people who didn't do anything wrong is the way of terrorists and not of civilized people.