Russia+China+India

[NINA]

I wanted to add something else- I have cousins who live in Toronto, Canada and for some reason they also dislike Indians. A lot of Canadians seem to be very rascist. I asked them why they do not like them and nobody was able to give any valid excuse. I think that Canadians have problems with liking many nations. They do not like Arabs either. It might be that different types of people from India come to Canada. For example in St. Louis big, big majority of Serbs and Bosnian Muslims are people whose highest education is a trade school. There are poorly educated and very ignorant. There are not that many people that can be my friends because their ideas and education are not very good. That is the reason why so many Americans in my city have very bad opinion about people from Yugoslavia because all the ones that they have seen were ignorant and very uneducated. But in other parts of US opinion is 100% different because they encountered different kind of people from the same country. Usually families send papers and visas to their families in other countries so they are all very similar in education and behavior. But majority of Canadians that I met (and I met many), including Serb-Canadians dislike Indians, blacks, Arabs etc. Why I still did not figure that out.

[Lilly]

Zdravo Nina, (I am glad you are back, missed you very much. Did you have a good holiday?)

Kada god chitam tvoj "postings" shto se tiche Bosne, uvek mislim kad chitem kroz redove, da si ti Hrvatica ali ne Srpkinja.

Mozda ja greshim, ali u jednom chlanku, ti si navela da tvoj brat ide ili je ishao u Katolichku shkolu. Ja josh nisam videla da Srbin dozvoli da mu sin pohadja katolichku shkolu. Ne moj da se nadjesh uvredjena, ali samo sam htela da znam.

Concerning the people that come from India who I met here in Canada, I would like to tell you that it was not a pleasant experience. I never said they were stupid.

I simply disagreed with the boast about intellectual power and military superiority.
Please!

I tried to be nice to them, but I always had the feeling that they look down upon us. Most of them made derogatory remarks
against the whites. I am certain that there are many pleasant people from India; I have not met them yet.

I am freely saying that this is my personal feeling based on my experience in dealing with the them. Racism does not factor in this equation.

I am not a racist, in fact I have friends and acquaintances of all races, ethnic origins, nationalities, including Bosnian Muslims, Blacks (my best friends), Arabs etc. whom I deeply respect.

I don't have to love everybody; these people (who I personally met) rub me the wrong way.

Who are they to complain? They have their own sects and discriminate against each other!

I disagree about the comment on racism in Canada, it has the lowest rate in any multi-ethnic country of the world. So now who is putting labels on whom?

Nina you wrote that Americans have a low opinion about Yugoslavs....be careful of pointing fingers, bend the finger and it points back to you. I am not being rude to you. Everywhere you look there is some form of bias. It is human nature,classism; not blatent racism.

Besides, I just wanted to stir the waters of controversy!!! It worked! Lighten up a little.
I am sick and tired of reading "you are right, I agree with you, and you on the other side is also right." What is the "end" result of "fence sitters". They pull splinters out of their a$$ all the time.

I am not averse or opposed to everything Indian; I enjoyed reading about their ancient dieties and of course, Kama Sutra !

Regards to all,
LillyNomad
-----------------------
We must believe in free will. We have no other choice. Isaac Bashevis Singer

[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited 12 January 2000).]

[NINA]

LILY-Thanks for asking, my holidays were great! Sto se tice komentara da li sam Hrvatica to nikoga normalnog ne moze da uvredi. Ali, ne nisam. Mog stric zivi u Torontu i on i moj otac poznaju mnogo nasih ljudi u Americi i u Kanadi. Moj otac je zavrsio teologiju u Sremskim Karlovcima i sada svake nedjelje pomaze prilikom sluzbe u crkvi u St. Louis-u Holly Trinity. Prota te crkve je Radomir Chkautovich i moj otac mu pomaze. Moja majka je takodje Srpkinja, svi u porodici su krsteni i crkveno vjencani. Zato je moj otac imao problem "dealing" sa ovim Srbima koji su rodjeni u Americi ali vecina su samo Srbi po imenu. Moj djed Radomir Popovic (ch - naravno) je uhapsen zajedno sa Drazom Mihailovicem i moj otac po njemu nosi ime Dragoljub. Moja porodica je u Bosni poznata po tome da su svi bili svestenici i borci. Ocigledno ne poznajes situaciju u Americi. U St. Louisu moj brat je imao tri izbora sto se tice skole- ili da ide u veoma losu city school sa metal detektorima ili u jedinu privatnu i katolicku. Pored toga city schools imaju losu reputaciju, tesko je otici na dobar univerzitet poslije tako lose skole i i osim toga te dvije skole imaju stotine Muslimana iz Bosne a nase su auto unistavali vec tri puta ti isti Muslimani. ZA nas Bozic ove godine razbili su nam sva stakla na tatinom autu. Osim toga Bob Dimitrijevic je sin svestenika u St. Louisu (njegov otac je bio svestenik prije Prote Radomira Chautovicha i njegov prijatelj je svestenik i direktor jedne od najboljih katolickih skola u St. Louisu. Zahvaljujuci Dimitrijevicu moj brat pohadja skolu besplatno. Osim toga on je jedan od petorice najboljih ucenika u svojoj skoli tako da je dobio i stipendije. Ali ja ne treba da se pravdam nikome jer za mene su jedini Srbi oni rodjeni u nasoj zemlji. To je zemlja u kojoj ce da se rode i moja djeca i da zive tamo tako da bar znaju o cemu pricaju kada sebe nazovu Srbima. Na srecu u St. Louisu ima mnogo Srba koji su ovdje dosli tek prije par godina. Ono sto je moja porodica prezivjela (mnogi to znaju koji nas poznaju od prije) dovoljan je znak koliko smo mi Srbi. Moj otac se javio kao dobrovoljac (ali naravno izdali su nas generali i pobjegli preko noci iz grada bez rijeci). Ujak mog momka u St. Louisu je proveo 3 godine u zatvoru u Zenici i Sarajevu i nije ni vidio svoje dijete 3 godine jer se Ana rodila dok je on bio u zatvoru. Jedino sto moze da me naljuti su "Srbi" rodjeni u drugoj zemlji, sa akcentom kad pricaju nas jezik, sa snahama ili mozda i muzevima koji nisu Srbi, koji nisu proveli ni 15 godina u Srbiji ali su u stanju da dovode u pitanje srpstvo pravih Srba. Dosta tih Srba u Kanadi i Americi su cutali kada im nije odgovaralo da javno kazu da su Srbi i pricaju protiv US ili Kanade. Dosta ih se bojalo kazati da su Srbi u trenucima kada su pravi Srbi ginuli tako da bi jos uvijek postajalo parce zemlje zvano otadzbina. Osim toga svi Srbi koji su dosli ovdje prije ovog sada rata dosli su zbog love i ni zbog cega drugoga. Svi Srbi koji su za vrijeme ovog sada rata dosli ovdje dosli su iz Bosne jer njihov grad su zauzeli Muslimani ili Hrvati a Srbija ne zeli da im da dozvolu da tamo zive i drzavljanstvo.Moj stric Boza koji je u Kanadi (tatin stric) je takodje zajedno sa mojim dedom i Drazom bio uhapsen od strane komunista. proveo je 10 godina u zatvoru. Moj deda je proveo ja mislim godinu. UDBA ga je stalno ispitivala, proganjala moju porodicu godinama poslije rata. Privodili su mog djeda, poslije ispitivali mog oca, pljuvali i gadjali kamenjem mog oca i druge studente teologije na ulicama Beograda itd. Prijatelja mog dede su tukli toliko puta (UDBASI) da mu je zena izvrsila samoubistvo jer to nije mogla da podnese, kcerka mu je gotovo poludjela a i sin (kasnije moj profesor knjizevnosti u gimnaziji) je imao pshickih problema. Pa ipak niko od tih Srba nije napustio nasu zemlju cak ni kada je njihov sopstveni ili zivot njihovih porodica bio u pitanju. oni srbi koji su pobjegli i cija djeca su poslije rodjena na ovom kontinentu pobjegli su samo da bi bolje zaradili tako da ne moraju da zive u srusenoj, posleratnoj Jugoslaviji pa su poslije "bistrili"politiku iz Kanade i Amerike. Pravi Srbi su ostali (moja tetka Vera je takodje pobjegla u Chicago poslije rata). Kako je to samo ona bila u opasnosti a moj deda i stric u zatvoru nisu - ko zna. I moj deda je mogao da napusti zemlju ali kao svi pravi Srbi i patrioti-nije. Svi ostali izvini sto tako kazem nisu vrijedni zvati se Srbima. A sto se tice "Srba" koji ne bi svoju djecu poslalu u katolicku skolu" to je smijesno. U Kanadi mozda ne ali u Americi niko osim crnaca ne salje svoju djecu u drzavnu skolu ako zivi u gradu kao mi. A sve skole koje su privatne u Americi su ili katolicke ili protestantske. osim toga oni uce istoriju religije i ne prisustvuju katolickim misama. u skoli mog brata ima i muslimana iz arapskih zemalja. pored svega toga moj brat i ostali koji nisu katolici imaju slobodne dane za nase praznike itd. "Srbi" koji ne salju svoju djecu u takve skole - pa sta da vam kazem -vecina njih i onako nisu Srbi. Mali je broj Srba u Kanadi koji nisu rodjeni u Kanadi. Ako i nisu dosli su u Kanadu veoma mladi tako da njihov nacin zivota, druzenja, razmisljanja i sl. nema nikakve veze sa pravim Srbima. Oni su Kanadjani po svemu osim po prezimenu -mnogima ni imena nisu Srpska. Njihovo ponasanje takodje nije srpsko. Imala sam prilike da vidim i upoznam "Srbe"iz Kanade kada su dolazili u crkvu -Holly Trinity u ST. Louisu. Cak ni srpski nisu u stanju da pricaju bez akcenta. Tu nema nista srpsko nazalost.
T. Popovic

[Lilly]

Nina, Zlato Moje,
You have the wisdom of the world. I can learn so much from you. Looking at things from differenct perspectives, I can see the whole picture. I thank you.

My husband's family comes from Bosnia. His father was a Cetnik (Serbian freedom fighter against Nazis & Communists)in Bosnia during WWI. He never joined the Communist party, even though he could have lived better if did join. As a matter of fact, all 5 of his brothers were Cetniks. My father was a P.O.W. in Germany for 5 years. He was taken as prisoner from the Belgrade Garrison early in the war before he even had time to join Draza Mihailovic.

Moj stric je bio pop u Pozarevcu.

I understand about the school system. I would have made the same choice too.

Girl, you will go far. The U.S.needs more like you.

Sincerely,
LillyNomad

[Mihail]

What about RUSSIA + INDONESIA + MOLDOVA ?! Or maybe we should unite with Vietnam? Or Canada?

Got the point?

[NINA]

LILY, After reading your reply I realized something funny. I forgot when did you come to Canada, but I still cannot get used to being able to say that everybody in my family was Chetnik. My father never even mentioned that before I was 15 years old. He and others did not say that to their young children because they were afraid that child might say that in school or somewhere else. Now that I am in USA I can say it in front of everybody and that is still very unusual for me. Also, you are the first person I met (in person or on the internet) in USA and Canada that was not afraid to say good things about Serbs and to express her opinion about controversial issues. Unfortunatelly, as I told you, Serbs (majority) in this city most of the time were afraid to say something when they had a chance. Some of them (and I will not name them) spoke for newspapers, TV or radio and not only that they never said anything good, but they agreed with some horrible things and even American bombings. The worst thing is that those were Serbs who should have been the first to state their opinions against crimes commited against Serbs. But I am more than happy to know that there are still proud Serbs in USA and Canada like you who are not afraid to state their disagreements with policies of the West. Also thanks God that there are Serbs who were not the members of Communist party even though I would like to live in one of those socialist countries in Europe. nisam znala da Vam je muz iz Bosne (mislila sam da je iz Srbije). ovdje nema bas puno Srba iz Bosne tako da mi je uvijek drago kada cujem da je neko iz Bosne. u gradu u kojem ja zivim malo je ljudi koji poticu iz porodica kao Vas muz. I kako sam rekla gotovo vise od pola njih ne prica srpski iako su oni tek prva generacija koja je rodjena u Americi. Uzas. Cak je i sluzba obicno vise na engleskom nego na srpskom pa se moj otac ljuti jer nista ne razumije. Puno pozdrava Vama i Vasem muzu
NINA

[NINA]

LILY- I forgot to ask you something. Usually all those Serbs who were caught like your dad never had the chance to come back to Yugoslavia because of Communists. Also, a lot of them were killed while trying to go back when they were realeased from prisons. Did your father ever go back to Yugoslavia for a visit or not? I'd also like to know when was he able to leave Europe after the War? Thanks,
NINA