Sikorski

Voyager,

Just a few points:

1. Ukranians were a product of polonization of Russians (people of Rus, that was originally on the territory of today's ukraine).

2. But in spite of point 1. we don't differ that much. We can understand each other, our languages are rather dialects (as soon as they, as I heard, are closer than some german dialicts). Two different cultures? How, for example, Taras Shevchenko and Nikolai Gogol can be divided between two countries?

3. About oppressors. It's completely NOT an ethnic thing. It's about not being happy with strong centralised power. Russian cossacks of Don and Yaik also had some "problems" with Russian state, with Czars and Emperors (just to mention Pugachev, Bulavin, Razin and even Yermak). So, they aren't Russian? Complete nonsense.

4. Soviet Union is something that separate everything that was united, not the other way round. Just to mention how Russia was divided on "soviet republics" (that also was divided, like georgia), autonomus regions, republics, and so on. Divide and rule. We still can't unite again what communists divided.

[pendosodav]

Igor Sikorskiy was one of the greatest engineers of time. I am proud of that he was Russian (Russian - velikorossy, malorossy, belorossy). Political changes have not allowed him to execute all plans on the Native land. He always had one Native land - Russia. In Le-Burge near Paris in 1965 supersonic passenger plane TU144 has been shown. As then told A. Tupolev, when Sikorskiy examined this plane in him eyes were melancholy and affection. For Sikorskiy it was a particle of the abandoned Russia.

[Sikorski_family]

Igor Sikorsky is my mother's father's great great uncle. From what I have been told he was actually Polish, but when the Germans came to Poland during WWI his side of the family changed the spelling from "Sikorski" to Sikorsky" so that they would be thought of as Russian and would be left alone.

[dj_who_kid]

Changing your name to be Russian in order to escape Germans makes little sense. Nazis wanted to exterminate Russian nation.

Originally posted by Sikorski_family
Igor Sikorsky is my mother's father's great great uncle. From what I have been told he was actually Polish, but when the Germans came to Poland during WWI his side of the family changed the spelling from "Sikorski" to Sikorsky" so that they would be thought of as Russian and would be left alone.

I have no doubts that Sikorsky had some Polish blood. But, he was born in 1889 in Russia, in early 1900s (when he studied in Petersburg) he was already refered to as Sikorsiy, not Sikorski, in 1919 he left Russia for US, but until last days called Russia his only motherland.

What have nazis in Poland (and Poland itself) to do with all this? Who can explain?

[_Prawda_]

Sikorski family...ure ancestor Igor Sikorski was from polish descent but after 1772-95 russia ocupied the area where ure Sikorski lived what i know he was from Kiev but proly more west.....Polish Nobles and Polonisation started long time ago since 1300 century until 1800 century....after time living so far from poland and with russification and later ukification the poles there ither fled was killed or simply adopted to sorundings changing names etc...Sikorski is a Polish surname my surname also is close to this surname....there still Poles today in Kiev but mostly have forgoten their polish language and many are mixed with ukes and russians only having their surname left or religioun catholic....
there are many Poles in Zhitomir city this is more west of Kiev...

what religioun did Igor have? Uniate?Catholic?Orthodox?
and what ure family have religioun Sikorski family?

http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1600.htm

if u serch here http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/
this is about polish nobles names and also has a serch for where all people with a specific surname lives in poland...
in 1991 there was 26.000 Sikorskis in Poland so u have relations there....
http://genforum.genealogy.com/poland/

many famous russians where from polish descent...
Like Chajkowski today 62 have this surname in poland..
Dostojewski etc....



Powiêksz
KOPASZYNA


Inne nazwy:


Kopaszijna, Kopasina


Zawo³anie:


Kopaszyna, Poruba


Opis:


(Kopaszyna). Kopaschijna. Pro insigni defert duos fluvios dorsis invicem iunctos, quos media
crux intersecat in campo rubeo.

Jan D³ugosz, Insignia ..., nr 60, s. 55
Kopaszyna. Za znak ma dwie rzeki grzbietami nawzajem z³¹czone, których œrodek krzy¿
przecina w polu czerwonym.
T³umaczenie Danuta Szopa

Maj¹ byæ dwie rzeki bia³e, z góry na dó³ p³yn¹ce, a we œrodku miêdzy nimi krzy¿, czyli
raczej miecz ot³uczony, na he³mie trzy pióra strusie.
Kasper Niesiecki, Herbarz, t. V, s. 215

(...) w polu czerwonym dwie krzywaœnie srebrne skosami do³em do siebie, z takim¿e
krzy¿em kawalerskim luzem u czo³a.
Józef Szymañski, Herbarz, s. 153


Legenda herbowa:


Za czasów Boles³awa, Œmia³ego Króla Polskiego, wojsko nieprzyjacielskie, miêdzy dwiema
rzekami roz³o¿y³o siê, postrzeg³szy to rycerz nazwany Kopasina, w noc g³êbok¹ na
niespodziewaj¹cych siê, z innymi swymi uderzy³ i naprzód konie im wszystkie zabrawszy,
tak potem siek³ i bi³ do woli, a¿ wszystkich wyci¹³; za co (...) te¿ same dwie rzeki w herbie
wzi¹³ i miecz (...).
Kasper Niesiecki, Herbarz, t. V, s. 216


Herbowni:


B³êdowski, Cz¹stecki, Kopasiñski, Miêdzygórski, Sikorski, Slanka, Stenszczewski, Zaborski.

As u see Sikorski is from Noble Polish family and tradition....
Igor simply lived in times when very dangerous claiming other than russian national...

also sikorski belong to Lis Coat of armour......

LIS


Inne nazwy:


Lijssowije, Murza, Vulpes


Zawołanie:


Lis


Opis:


(Lis. Murza). Lijssowije. Que cuspidem sagitte albam cum duobus crucibus albis in campo rubeo,
et vulpem in galea defert.
Jan Długosz, Insignia ..., nr 71, s. 58
Lis. Która [to tarcza] ostrą strzałę białą z dwoma krzyżami białymi w polu czerwonym i lisem
na hełmie wyobraża.
Tłumaczenie Danuta Szopa

Ma być strzała biała w polu czerwonym, dwa jelca na niej, tak ułożone, że się zdadzą
jakby dwa krzyże, nad hełmem lis z korony niby wyskakujący, tylnych u niego nóg
nie widać, ogon tylko zadarty, nogi przednie wzniesione, sam głową w lewą tarczy obrócony.
Kasper Niesiecki, Herbarz, t. VI, s. 124-125

(...) w polu czerwonym srebrna rogacina dwukrotnie przekrzyżowana. Hełm i klejnot: lis
wyskakujący nieznanej barwy.
Józef Szymański, Herbarz, s. 177



Legenda herbowa:


(...) w roku 1058 za Kazimierza I [Odnowiciela] króla polskiego: gdy albowiem pod
Sochaczewem nad rzeką Bzura czy Mzura, przodek tego domu, z niewielką garsztką
ludzi, Jadźwingów i Litwę tamten kraj bezpiecznie pustoszących w koło opasał, hasło im
albo znak dał przez strzałę bystro i wysoko ogniem siarczystym wysadzoną, którą postrzegłszy
ci co w tyle zasadzeni byli, wielkim impetem na nieprzyjaciela natarli, on też z drugiej strony
na czele stanąwszy (...) ich wkrótce złamał, i zwycięstwo otrzymał: za to heroiczne dzieło
strzałę mu na tarczy nadano, a herb ten, Bzura czy Mzura, zwać od miejsca tej potyczki
poczęto (...).
Kasper Niesiecki, Herbarz, t. VI, s. 125


Herbowni:


Biskupski, Boczka, Bohufał, Bolestraszycki, Borowski, Bucela, Buchczycki, Bukczycki, Bzura, Bzurski, Chomętowski, Chomiński, Chrzelowski, Cieszowski, Cyrus, Czarnecki, Czarnocki, Czarnota, Czyż, Doroszkiewicz, Fulko, Gatardowicz, Giebułtowski, Giełbutowski, Gliński, Gołuchowski, Gottard, Grodowski, Grudowski, Grzegorzewski, Grzywa, Iliński, Jaczyński, Jarnicki, Jerlicz, Jeżewski, Jodko, Kanigowski, Karnicki, Kasicki, Kempiński, Kęsztort, Kiejsztor, Kniehenicki, Kolesiński, Komoński, Komorowski, Komuński, Konstantynowicz, Korsak, Korzeniewski, Kosmowski, Koziegłowski, Kozłowski, Kroiński, Kulczycki, Kwiliński, Lipicki, Lisiecki, Lisowski, Łącki, Makarowicz, Małuszeński, Medeksza, Metra, Michałowicz, Michniewicz, Mickiewicz, Mieszkowski, Mikołajewski, Miroński, Mnichowski, Naczowicz, Narbut, Nieczycki, Niemierza, Niemsta, Ochab, Olszewski, Ołtarzewski, Ossendowski, Piaseczyński, Pieczonka, Pieczynga, Postrumieński, Proszczowicz, Radzimiński, Rappold, Roszczyc, Rożnicki, Rudnicki, Ruszczyc, Ruszel, Rymwid, Samsonowicz, Sangayło, Sapieha, Sikorski, Sipowicz, Słupski, Starzyński, Suwigajło, Swierski, Szkudlski, Światopełk, Tausz, Tymiński, Uliński, Wańkowicz, Wasieńcowicz, Werbski, Wereszczaka, Wichorowski, Wieźliński, Wilkanowski, Wolan, Wolski, Woronowicz, Worowski, Wróblewski, Zabieło, Zadambrowski, Zając, Zaleski, Zawadzki, Zdan.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/nati...bliography.htm
"The Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (then including today's Belarus and Ukraine) formed a political and dynastic union in 1386. A system of heraldic clans, already in existence in Poland, was extended to Lithuania via the adoption into as many Polish clans of forty-seven Lithuanian and Ruthenian noblemen at Horodlo in 1413. The Union of Both Nations was renewed at Lublin in 1569, and endured until its three-stage partitions at the hands of Prussia, Austria, and Russia: 1772, 1793, and 1795."

Ruthenian was the Latin name for Belarus and Ukraine people in old times...
http://www.nobility.by/

[Edited by _Prawda_ on 11th July 2004 at 22:11]