Can someone clear this up for me?

[ANDY-J1]

Originally posted by p_panzerschreck
So actually Andy, where did most of the casualties of war came from?? During the beginning of the war or from the turning point onwards??

Here is a source detailing the numbers of military casualties lost by the Soviets during the war.


http://www.magweb.com/sample/sgmbn/sgm80soj.htm


It indicates that very high fatality rates occured during 1941 and 1942 when an average of over 3 million troops died each year which is an incredible figure for 1941 when you consider that the invasion only began in June.However by 1944 the numbers had diminished to 1.7 million.Reliable sources on civilian deaths are more difficult to find however.

[Balamut]

Source of civilian deaths are calculations done by Moscow State University - considering demographical situation in USSR in the beginning of the war and after the victory day minus soldier casualties.

[ANDY-J1]

But surely the demographical situation at that time can only be a matter of conjecture.Russia's peasant population lived in tens of thousands of small rural communities and I doubt if there were any censuses carried out which gave a true reflection of the numbers of people living in such places.therefore the true numbers of civilian deaths during the war cannot ever be known with certainty.

[limey_defence]

I would advise a cease in the argument about numbers lost on the Eastern Front. Alex_Ivanov and I had the same discussion a while back, and I believe we came to the conclusion that you cannot get accurate numbers.

From many different the sources range between 8 million to 26 million. Now we can all imagine the true figure is somewhere in the middle, but do not try and state what you think to be a true figure because you read it from one source.

The losses were many, and the majority were lost between 1941 and 1943.

Originally posted by ANDY-J1
But surely the demographical situation at that time can only be a matter of conjecture.Russia's peasant population lived in tens of thousands of small rural communities and I doubt if there were any censuses carried out which gave a true reflection of the numbers of people living in such places.therefore the true numbers of civilian deaths during the war cannot ever be known with certainty.

Not exactly. Total censuses (even chukchas in tundra were counted) were carried out in 1897, 1920, 1926, 1939, 1959. After that, though it isn't important for the topic at all there were censuses of 1970, 1979, 1989, 2002.

According to demographical researches, SU had lost 40 million people during WW2 total. It's the difference between pre- and post-war population of the Union (People, of course, were dying naturally during the war too, as they usually do even without wars).

Looking at this figure, we can't say how many civilians were killed, and how many died naturally (military casualties are documented, worse or better).

So civilian casualties are indeed hard to count.

[Russian3-23112]

There were more Civilians in Saint Petersburg Russia than any other city. Most of the Troops in the Russian Army were at the Russian Front lines

[Balamut]

Exactly as Alex wrote, ANDY.

Death rate was taken from the prewar period.
Also there was war period increased newborns death rate coefficient taken into account.
Thus numbers are not so far from reality.

There were numbers, but I don't remeber 'em.
If you want I can search.

[Edited by Balamut on 12th June 2004 at 01:49]