Russian history-a trail of hideous crimes.

[Tugay-bey]

Originally posted by Jeremi
I loath Russia as a country and as a nation while having great sympathy for russians as individuals.

Alex:
Russian culture unlike Western is collectivistic, so we hardly ever understand such sentences.
How's that,Alex? Did you mean to say,that Russians have no individuality at all? Just a heard of sheep,sort of,hu?Everything "collective",thoughts,needs,opinions? Dude you do sound exactly like Soviet propaganda.I tell you,Alex,even though we're zemlyaki,it's getting to a point,were I wouldn't be even interested in your opinion.Why bother,if I can read it in some Kremlin's propaganda rag.....

[Tugay-bey]

Originally posted by Voyager13b
Interesting... The "spetsnaz" thing in Ukraine never really made the front page news, as I recall. Nothing ever came of it, and it was most likely a fabrication of a small segment of the orange party supporters.

Also, many people in the US consider CNN to mean "Communist News Network". I don't look at CNN as an objective news source by any stretch, and don't watch it more than two or three time a year.

Jeremi, you can deny it all you like, but you come across as a classic Russophobe. First, you spew hatred for Russia in general. Next, you apologize to those mythical Russians that you think support your view. Then, you offer to carry on a discussion. Let me clue you in. You don't squirt on an entire population in your opening remarks, and then ask them to debate the details in a friendly manner.

Both Russia and Poland are proud countries. Both have made their mark on modern civilization in a positive way, and both deserve respect in personal dissent. Where is the respect that you bring to Ru.com?

Voyager

Nicely said, Voyager.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally posted by Tugay-bey
How's that,Alex? Did you mean to say,that Russians have no individuality at all?

I just want to say that if somebody blames Russian nation in general I always take it personally, I can't pretend it doesn't touch me at all because I'm respected as individual. That's all.

[Jeremi]

But it was russians Alex.Sure we can say "goverment did it" but someone has to pull a trigger and its everyday citizen who do this.
A nation that accepts tyrants and support/carries out their sick orders is guilty of crimes.
And Russia produces such people by the milions.I found that most russians who are level headed and critisize Russia are born abroad.
So blaming a nation is in fact the right thing to do.

[Tugay-bey]

Originally posted by Alex_Ivanov

I just want to say that if somebody blames Russian nation in general I always take it personally, I can't pretend it doesn't touch me at all because I'm respected as individual. That's all.

No,Alex,don't even try to weasel your way out of this one...Explane,what you meant by "collectivistic culture"."couse,IMO,it ain't no Russian thing,but,rather,Soviet,cultivated by the red propaganda mashine.I just want to see,if you're brainwashed so deeply,that you can't distinguish between the two.So far,Alex,you sound like those young "soviet patriots" I've seen in my youth.We called them "krasniye"-reds.I know,you're gonna dispute this,but you sound just like them

[Tugay-bey]

Originally posted by Jeremi
But it was russians Alex.Sure we can say "goverment did it" but someone has to pull a trigger and its everyday citizen who do this.
A nation that accepts tyrants and support/carries out their sick orders is guilty of crimes.
And Russia produces such people by the milions.I found that most russians who are level headed and critisize Russia are born abroad.
So blaming a nation is in fact the right thing to do.

Jeremy,you have to understand,that the policy of weeding out any free-thinking people in Russia isn't Stalin's invention.It started with Ivan the Terrible(Novgorod,read on that,if you'd like to understand) and continues to this day.You can't blame plain Russian folks for that.The Kremlin's ideal Russian citiesen is a slave with no will of his(or,rather it's) own.In order to survive,a Russian would have to be it,or pretend to be.Ever heard of "kitchen politics"? It's tipical Russian for when you have to follow the Kremlin's line during day time,and wisper your own opinion to your wife at night in the kitchen with the doors shut,so your kids wouldn't hear.

[Jeremi]

Indeed i understand that russians are being "brainwashed" daily but they are people with more or less free will.
If i get prdered to shoot civilians or participate in a mass execution i know what i am doing regardless of any propaganda.
Russians are not puppets or retarded they are normal people and thus responsible for their actions.Plus a nation has to be allowed to be brainwashed for example in Poland ( i use my country as an example since i know its history the best) so in Poland communism never fared well the nation simply did not allow to be pushed around.
Russians did.