The Caucasoid descent of Chinese people

[1RACE]

prober,

to go off subject a little, well not really as you posted this towards the end of youre thread.
The ainu did not breed with mongoloids to make the present day people of japan.The ainu were pushed out towards the region of japan just like the mongoloids were,the bone structures in the japanese are more closley related to koreans then ainu.
One last question are yoo saying that mongloid people came from caucasions?
How do yu know that the ainu were not asian people turning white??

[DiamondNebula]

I have the same question as theboy.I always wonder where the slavic race come from
Why germanic tribes dominate so much europe and world history while slavic took time until world war2 to become a true super power with nuclear.

A greek history teacher tell me that slavic people are maybe part of a eastern branch of celtic tribes. It is sad that they both follow the same misfortune.Both celts and slavic tribes were crushed by germanic tribes fduring thousands of years. Can someone tell me if slavic people master the iron metal late?If so then maybe this is the reason the germanic tribes dominate them so much.Any way the rest of history was develop by germanic tribes from wysigoth, goths, franks, flemings,Angles,allmans,saxons and vickings.

Angles and saxons kick out the poor celtics if brittain island before them self be invaded by fresh germanic blood of dans and vickings.Most people in northern scottland are related to sweden or norway by blood because of the vickings. The vickings even destroy the last celtic territory in iceland where they took celtic woman to mixt with them and form a hybruid nation of celtic/vickings. Later frensh immigration of vickings of danmark bring new blood with time and the country became very vicking.




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thats alot of asian stuff on a russian web site. well anyway. ive noticed that a couple of hmong people have posted so ill do the same. were the only people in asia that have naturally blond hair. our history isnt too clear. no one actually knows where we came from or what we really are. well maybe god but we cant get him to tell us. there are stories about us coming from icy snow covered mountains and others that are more fantasy based. theres even one story about us being the lost hebrew tribe. i dont know what to believe anymore but im still trying to find something that tells me who we really are. i dont care if were originally white europeans. i just wanna find out the truth. all i know is that we got pushed around alot in history and alot of us were killed. its been killing me inside for years becuase i didnt and still dont what we really are. sigh... we may never know

[shortieekat]

ive been trying to learn about a mysterious group of people. i was wondering if anyone know information that could help me.
what i know is that these people are asian and not caucasian. some have green eyes but dark hair. they no longer call themselves east asians but rather central asians. they left east asia hundreds if not thousands of years ago and have vowed never to return. they are often called gypsies and are not to be confused with mongolians or islamic minorites in china. these people are nomadic or at least once were. they now reside around the xinjiang area of china.
if anyone has any information, id greatly appreciate it.

[MorningCalm]

Countryboy, why is your site called uglychinese.org?

[countryboy]

To answer you why I named my website so, let me quote some of the responses I received:

-------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: webmaster
To: Phillip
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 1:32 PM
Subject: Thank you for the interest in my website


Thank you for the interest in my website.

Ah Xiang is only a alias, which means pumpkins or peasants.

I did my website for sake of China and Chinese people. It is never for money, nor for fame. Owning to constraints in time and energy, I could not afford to prep a Chinese version website.

I do not have too much confidence in China's future. I think our people had already spoken their minds by their actions. They deserted China in hordes. Only something catastrophic would re-ignite our racial and ethnic spirits again. I don't have any timeline as to prediction for China's collapse, but the social and economic crises inside of China is tantamount to volcano that could erupt any time.

I had hoped that we Chinese could revisit the spirits of our ancestors so that we could rebuild our confidence. I feel better when I noticed that our teenager boys and college students had explored into the past of our nation even though they are born overseas and do not know how to read and write in Chinese. Perhaps, my website's greatest contribution will be in this aspect.


Take care.

Ah Xiang

----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip
To: webmaster@uglychinese.org
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:54 PM
Subject: Thank you


Ah Yiang,

Only a superior scholar in a highest level can write like you.

I have study your dissentation for last three nites...I only begin to scratch the surface of the fathom of your work in English.

Your work - the uglychinese is an amazing. 'Uglychinese' is good title to invite amuzement of potential readers, specially for Western thinking folks (can be all ethnicity, including chinese); it is good to be able to 'satirzation' of of one's work that contains the epics, upon epics of a 'TIEN' aka Heaven and Earth' seriousness in its core.

Your compilation of 'conneting the web' of Middle-Kingdom aka Chinese Civilization is incredible; it will stand the test of time for a long time. Is your work written in modern Chinese?

With utmost, Sincerity, I Thank You.

Phillip,


------------------------------------------


NAME: Lam

PHONE:

Topic Of Interest: Culture

Comment On Website: Good

REFERRER SITE: other referrer

referrer:

COMMENTS: Hi there,

First off, I must say GREAT SITE and obviously a labour of love. It is a wakeup call for someone like me who has always had a nascent if latent interest in Chinese history and culture - and your site has made me take an even more active interest in educating myself on my people's history and past. It is a real shame nowadays that so many Chinese youth - especially in the West - are apathetic about their own culture - and some might say - even ashamed of it. Your site is the perfect resource for those who need to draw on it to shock those with a distinct lack of cultural pride - even self-loathing - out of their complacency. Especially interesting is the Poem by Li Hongzhang appended to the end of every article - I find that it articulates the Chinese pathos all too well at this and recent junctures of our long history. May I ask if you have the poem in the original Chinese, and where you got it from? Also, what is the original title of the poem? It would be great if you put up a webpage with the poetry in the original Chinese. Please let me know as to the above, and if possible, where I could find the poem (in any form, translation or otherwise) on the internet. That would be most helpful. Many thanks and kind regards,

Lam

------------------------------------------


Thank you very much for the encouragement. And, thank you for the appreciation of my work.

Frankly speaking, I never feel tired about continuing my work. Every night, before taking rest, I would say to my myself, "The road ahead is remotely far, and my important task is not anything less."

Due to time constraints, it may take me quite some years to finish transcribing the whole Chinese history into English. History, in fact, is my main interest, not politics.

As to China, I am holding out hope that intelligent Chinese people who know how to read English will get to read my points, young Chinese who grows up overseas will come to know their roots and strengthen their ethnic pride, and non-Chinese alike will come to influence their Chinese friends and colleagues with what they find out here on my website.

I do not desire for any monetary interest, nor fame, nor any acknowledgement. I am happy to continue my work when I receive positive feedbacks from people like you. Take care.


Ah Xiang


----- Original Message -----
From: Brian
To: webmaster@uglychinese.org
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 8:26 PM
Subject: your web site



Thank you for your great labor in writing this web site, and for your passionate feelings about justice and human rights. A few years ago I had great hope for the Chinese people. But I am sad to say that the present unspeakable exploitation of the Chinese people by cooperation between global corporations, the Chinese government, and the US government has dashed most of my hopes.

I am interested in the current culture of China because I am struggling to understand why my Chinese friends have no interest in discussing the exploitation of Chinese workers by the facist/capitalist government of China, or in opposing anti worker globalization which makes it possible. I cannot understand how they can justify the lack of freedom and acts of cruelty of the local and national Chinese government officials.

I am inspired by the many great Chinese people such as Dr. Gao Yaoji who fearlessly fight for what is right. I am inspired by your analysis and use of ancient Chinese culture to try and develop a new ethical and value system for modern China.

Thanks you also for telling your brother's name. I will remember Yueping. I think often of the millions of suffering people whose names we will never know. Here is a picture of a young man whose name I do not know sent to me by a friend in Shenzhen. Maybe we can honor the unnamed workers by fighting for justice.

Please keep on working. There seems to be a new class system developing now.

Best wishes,

Brian





-----------------------------------------


----- Original Message -----
From: webmaster
To: Adam
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: From web site Visitor


Thank you for offering your opinions.

I agree very much with what you said. However, the ugly aspects do not necessarily restrict to the government. I think nobody had complained much about Bo Yang's book. And, ancient saying goes like "Ren [benevolent] people see the Ren, Zhi [intelligent] people see the Zhi". I hope that it could be a good stimulus to our people in reflecting on ourselves. I think my work is especially helpful for those young people who grew up overseas, and they would feel it inspiring about the country of China and take on the task of contributing to our cause.


Ah Xiang

----- Original Message -----
From: Adam
To: webmaster@uglychinese.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:25 AM
Subject: From web site Visitor


My name is Adam, i read through your web site and i think it provides good and rich information about the past, the present and the future of China.

But after, the name of the web site, "uglychinese" is too much involved racial and discrimination idea. I understand you pick this name as to be revealing the ugly side of the chinese government, though, i believe this name would give a wrong idea that it is pointing at all the innocent chinese people and culture.

PLEASE make an obvious comment at the start page, describe the true meaning of what way that name is used to point to.

regards,
Adam

-----------------------------------------





From: John
To: webmaster@uglychinese.org


To Ah Xiang,

I just wanted to write you an e-mail to let you know that your webpage really affected me. I consider myself to be a true patriot of the Chinese people and I feel very alone sometimes because I don't find many people who

can understand how I feel. I love the China and my people, but but I am saddened and worried when I see the things going on today. Imagine my surprise when I found your webpage! At first I thought that you were just someone out to bash Chinese people because of the webpage's name, but I
soon realized that your thinking is very close to mine.

I am impressed by all the historical and social knowledge that you posses, and I find it very accurate to my current experience. Not many Chinese in America care about what's going on back in the Mainland, even Chinese who claim to have "Chinese pride" just like to go back to China and exploit their American priviledge. It makes me sad. Whenever I travel to China, I cannot help but shed tears for the peasants and the migrants.

[countryboy]

Bobo Huang's genetical analysis only corroborates my historical expoundings. Previously, I said the path was clear: Huns raided to the west, Turks raided to the west, and Mongols raided to the west. Today's Uygurs in Chinese Turkistan, who fully settled in the West after being expelled from Mongolia, were the descendants of the Huns, the same way astoday's Mongols. Huns and ancient Chinese could be traced to the same lineage, i.e., Xia people.


From: Bobo Huang
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:19:50 -0600
To:


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I think all these arguments on (Han) Chinese origin are avoidable.
Historical records, including ethnic demographic history, are likely to be
some times imprecise and inconclusive. This leads to much controversy and
speculations. Paleoanthropology offers some insight and genealogy can
contribute. But, as genetics and paleo-genetics can provide more accurate
answers, these should be the main focus. This is not to negate others as
mentioned. They are still relevant to compliment the genetic analysis.
For example, in appearance or morphologically, most of the Brazillians
don’t
look like the Native American (Indian). Genetic analysis reveals something
quite different. The indigenous mitrochrondial DNA (female lineage)
contribution to the Brazillian population varies from 11% to 59%. Even in
some of the upper echelon of the supposedly more homogenous Whites, it
reaches as high as 33%. (Ref.1). A corollary study with DNA from the Y
chromosome (male lineage) of Columbian Mestizos pointed to a figure of
about
2 %.(Ref 2) This means historically it was mainly the European and to a
much
smaller extent African males who mated with the indigenous women to produce

the current Brazillian population. It strongly indicated that, in
consistent
with history, large numbers of the indigenous males were enslaved and
worked
to death/killed. And the excess native women were taken advantage by the
predominantly male European immigrants/invaders. It was also possible that
the native women preferred male European for survival reasons. This
contradicts the current academic apology that depopulation of the natives
was the result of diseases or lack of immunity to introduced diseases.
Diseases do not discriminate (whether you are male or female).

This aside, there are now enough genetic studies to answer this question
about (Han) Chinese origin. Perhaps, if all the Chinese ethnic groups are
to
be considered, more comprehensive and representative data are needed.
However, over the past few years, the Chinese genome project set up by
Stanford University and several Chinese Universities (Fudan University,
etc.) has done enough research to yield some results. (Ref 3)
Basically, genetic studies on Chinese, inclusive of many main ethnic
groups,
conclude that there are no European/Caucasoid genes in the Han Chinese. It
is easier and more definite to disprove substantial Caucasoid genetic
component in all Han Chinese. Also if there is any truth that there is
Caucasoid origin to Chinese, then significant amount of Caucasoid
mitochrondia DNA (female line) and Y chromosomal DNA (male line) has to be
present in all the Han Chinese. Even in the Uyghurs, the population only
possesses about 25 % identifiable Central Asian (more Turkish, not exactly
European) genetic markers.( Ref 3). The rest of their genetic markers are
more related to Northern Chinese/East Asian. This demonstrates that it is
more plausible to make a case that there were migrations outward from
central/north China rather than Central Asian infusion.(Ref 4,5)

In reality, the analysis of the genetic component of the Han and its mainly

Asian minorities is more complex. This is because genetically, the Asian
minorities (eg Tibetan) are more related to the Han than the Caucasian or
other minorities (eg.Kazaks) that have significant amount of Central Asian
genes. To track down the more closely related ethnic groups, more samples
(larger number of people from each group) and genetic markers have to be
analysed to reveal the minor differences. This is simply because it is
harder to differentiate individuals who are more alike genetically.
Besides,
interbreeding over the years further compromised the differences and so
complicated the picture. (Ref 4,5)

The following references used for this posting are available from website
like http://www.genetics.org Reasonable knowledge in genetics is required to read

and understand them.

Ref 1. Am. J. Hum. Genet., 67:444-461, 2000
The Ancestry of Brazilian mtDNA Lineages
Juliana Alves-Silva,1 Magda da Silva Santos,1 Pedro E. M. Guimarães,1
Alessandro C. S. Ferreira,1 Hans-Jürgen Bandelt,2 Sérgio D. J. Pena,1 and
Vania Ferreira Prado1
1Departamento de Bioquímica e Imunologia, Universidade Federal de Minas
Gerais, Belo Horizonte-MG, Brazil; and 2 Fachbereich Mathematik,
Universität
Hamburg, Hamburg

Ref 2. Strong Amerind/white sex bias and a possible Sephardic contribution
among the founders of a population in northwest Colombia.
Carvajal-Carmona LG, Soto ID, Pineda N, Ortiz-Barrientos D, Duque C,
Ospina-Duque J, McCarthy M, Montoya P, Alvarez VM, Bedoya G, Ruiz-Linares
A.
Laboratorio de Genetica Molecular, Universidad de Antioquia, Medellin,
Colombia.


Ref 3. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA
Vol. 95, pp. 11501–11503, September 1998
Commentary
The Chinese Human Genome Diversity Project
L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford,
CA
94305

Ref 4. Y-Chromosome Evidence for a Northward Migration of Modern Humans
into
Eastern Asia during the Last Ice Age
Bing Su,1 Junhua Xiao,2 Peter Underhill,5 Ranjan Deka,7 Weiling Zhang,2
Joshua Akey,1
Wei Huang,3,4 Di Shen,1 Daru Lu,2 Jingchun Luo,2 Jiayou Chu,8 Jiazhen Tan,2

Peidong Shen,5
Ron Davis,5,6 Luca Cavalli-Sforza,5 Ranajit Chakraborty,1 Momiao Xiong,1
Ruofu Du,9
Peter Oefner,5,6 Zhu Chen,3,4 and Li Jin1,2,3
1Human Genetics Center, University of Texas-Houston, Houston; 2Morgan-Tan
International Center for Life Sciences and Institute of Genetics,
Fudan University, 3National Human Genome Center at Shanghai, and 4Rui-Jin
Hospital, Shanghai Second Medical University, Shanghai;
5Department of Genetics, Stanford University, and 6Stanford DNA Sequencing
and Technology Center, Palo Alto; 7Department of
Environmental Health, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati; 8Institute of
Medical Biology, The Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences,
Kunming, Yunnan, China; and 9Institute of Genetics, The Chinese Academy of
Sciences, Beijing


Ref 5. Genetic Structure of the Chinese Populations
1,2Lin He, 1,2YongYong Shi, 1,2XinZhi Zhao, 1,2Lan Yu, 1,2Ran Tao,
1,2JunXia
Tang, 1,2Changshun Zhang, 1,2Bo Gao, 1,2Gang Chen, 1,2GuoYin Feng,
1,2YuJuan
La
1Bio-X Life Science Research Center, Shanghai Jiao Tong University, 1954
Hua
Shan Road, Shanghai 200030, China, 2Shanghai Research Center of Life
Sciences, 320 Yue Yang Road, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Shanghai 200031,
China