Russia.com Discussion Forum - "Scythian-Hun-Avar-Magyar-Turk" Same People

GENESIS 10, 8-13:

Cush was the father of Nimrod, who began to show himself a man of might on earth; and he was a mighty hunter before the Lord, as the saying goes, "Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord". His kingdom in the beginning consisted of Babel, Erech, and Accad, all of them in the land of Shinar. From that land he migrated to Asshur and built Nineveh, Rehoboth-Ir, Calah, and Resen, a great city between Nineveh and Calah.
[The New English Bible, Cambridge University Press, New York, p. 10]

The Hungarians, who call themselves Magyar, have an ancient traditional pre-christian account of their origins according to which they were the descendents of Nimrod (also spelled as Nimrud), son of Cush; Nimrod and Eneth had two sons, Magor and Hunor; Magor was the ancestor of the Magyars, and Hunor was the ancestor of the Huns, thus symbolizing the common origins of the Huns and of the Magyars. Ancient Byzantine sources mention that the Magyars were also known as the Sabirs who originated from Northern Mesopotamia, which was referred to as Subir-ki by the Sumerians who also originated from this land. Numerous other ancient and medieval sources also refer to the Scythians, Huns, Avars and Magyars as identical peoples.
Independently from the various political regimes which have ruled over Hungary and WHICH HAVE IMPOSED THE CURRENT OFFICIAL VERSION OF THE ORIGINS AND HISTORY OF THE HUNGARIANS, MODERN SCIENTIFIC AND SCHOLARLY RESEARCH HAS CONFIRMED THE "SCYTHIAN-HUN-AVAR-TURKIC-MAGYAR" ETHNOLINGUISTIC RELATIONSHIP AND CONTINUITY

Thus, the biblical references, ancient sources and modern independent scientific and scholarly research all concur with the Hungarians's own ancient account of their origins.

For further reference see The Controversy on the Origins and Early History of the Hungarians

10 000 years ago (8000 BC)

The Neolithic revolution: the invention of agriculture and animal domestication in the ancient Near East, the "Fertile Crescent" - the region between the Eastern Mediterranean and the Zagros mountains of Western Iran - by the peoples who formed the distinct (non-Semitic and non-Indo-European) ethno-linguistic group from which the Sumerians, the creators of the first civilization, originated.

7500 years ago (5500 BC)

Beginning of the Copper Age: Mesopotamia becomes the culturally dominant region of the Near East: first Northern Mesopotamia (Subir-ki/Subartu), and from 4500 BC, Southern Mesopotamia, the land of Sumer. Due to the demographic and economic growth resulting from the Neolithic revolution, the Near Eastern population begins to expand, settling in the Mediterranean and Danubian basins, Eastern Europe, Iran, India, and Central Asia, laying the foundations of civilization in those regions and exerting a determining cultural influence upon the later formation of the various Eurasian ethno-linguistic groups.

7000 years ago (5000 BC)

The first of several waves of Near Eastern settlers appear in the Carpathian basin, the territory of Historical Hungary.
SeeHungarian Archeological Artifacts

5200 years ago (3200 BC)

Beginning of the Bronze Age: Height of the Sumerian civilization; development of numerous cultural and technological inventions (writing, the wheel). First Sumerian Empire extends from the Eastern Mediterranean to Western Iran, including all of Mesopotamia.

3000 BC - 2000 BC

Sumerian colonies are established from the Atlantic Ocean through the Mediterranean and Danubian basins to India and Central Asia (Turan), and from the Caucasus to Northeast Africa. The vast belt of Eurasian grasslands stretching from the Carpathian mountains to the Altay range, bordered in the North by the Eurasian forest belt and in the the South by the Caucasus and the Iranian plateau, is gradually settled by Sumerians and Sumerian-related peoples from Mesopotamia, Transcaucasia and Iran. These Near Eastern settlers of the Eurasian grasslands became the peoples which were later referred to as the Scythians, Huns, Avars and Magyars among others, and collectively known as the Turanians. The Turanians were therefore the descendents of the Sumerian-Mesopotamian peoples, and the inheritors of this ancient Near Eastern culture. The Turanian peoples had a profound cultural impact on their Celtic, Germanic, Slavic, Finnic, Siberian and East Asian neighbours, which have preserved numerous Turanian ethno-linguistic and cultural elements. See

TURANIANS

3000 BC - 2455 BC

First appearance of nomadic Semitic tribes in Sumerian Mesopotamia. Semitic peoples begin to settle in increasing numbers in Mesopotamia. The Sumerian civilization exerts a dominant influence upon the development of later Semitic cultures.

2455 BC - 2356 BC

The Semitic Accadians impose their hegemony upon the Sumerian city-states. Mesopotamia is devastated by wars, the population is decimated, oppressed and enslaved by the Accadians. Many Sumerians flee to their colonies.

2356 BC - 1900 BC

The Sumerian city-states and their allies overthrow the Semitic Accadian hegemony, liberating themselves from foreign oppression.

1900 BC - 1733 BC

The Semitic Babylonians impose their hegemony upon Mesopotamia.

1733 BC - 1163 BC

The Kassites, one of the Sumerian-related peoples inhabiting Western Iran, overthrow the Semitic Babylonian hegemony and establish their rule over Northern Mesopotamia. A Sumerian dynasty rules over Southern Mesopotamia from 1860 BC to 1492 BC.

1115 BC - 612 BC

The Semitic Assyrians impose their hegemony over the Near East after centuries of warfare. The ensuing devastation, decimation, deportations and oppression alter the ethnic composition of the Near East, including Mesopotamia, as the Semitic element increases and the Sumerians decrease.

612 BC

The Sumerian-related Medes, Scythians, and Chaldeans annihilate the Assyrian Empire.

539 BC - 331 BC

After overthrowing the Median Empire, the Persians invade Mesopotamia and the rest of the Near East.

256 BC - 226 AD

After the fall of Persia, the Parthian Empire rules over Mesopotamia, Armenia and Iran. The Turanian Parthians, custodians of the ancient Sumerian civilization, resist the Eastern expansion of the Roman Empire. In 226 AD, the Persian Sassanids overthrow the Parthian Empire which experiences a revival between 272 and 326 AD.

2nd c. BC

The Hun Empire reaches its greatest extent from the Pacific to the Aral sea, from Siberia to the Parthian Empire and China. The Huns face centuries of struggle against an increasingly offensive and encroaching Chinese imperialism and expansionism.

2nd - 4th c. AD

Facing mounting pressures from China in the East, the Huns begin to expand into Europe.
In the 4th century AD, the Huns begin their Western military campaigns. In 375 AD, the Huns defeat the Goths, setting in motion the great migration of Germanic tribes which also contributed to the collapse of the Roman Empire.

5th c.

During the 5th century AD, the Huns continue their crushing military campaigns against the Roman Empire. The Huns expel the Romans from the Carpathian Basin (Pannonia and Dacia were occupied by the Romans after they had perpetrated genocidal warfare against the indigenous inhabitants of these Carpathian regions) and the Hun Empire establishes its centre of power in the Carpathian-Danubian region. Following Atilla's death under suspicious circumstances (I will come back to this later) in 453, the Huns' Germanic allies turn against them and the bulk of the Hunnic tribes regroups to the East of the Carpathians, leaving a rear-guard tribe in the Eastern Carpathians. This Hunnic tribe still inhabits this region today and they are the Hungarian Székely people.
HUNS : http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/hun/hun.htm

528

The Byzantine attempt to convert the Huns to the Christian religion fails after the Huns rebel against the destruction of their ancient religious symbols.

562

The Avar-Huns establish their empire in Central and Eastern Europe, with the Carpathian Basin as the centre of power. The Avars continue their centuries-long struggle against the encroaching German and Byzantine empires.
AVARS : http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/avar/avar.htm

9th c.

Following the settlement of Jewish refugees from the Near East in the Khazar Empire, the ruling dynasty of the Khazars, another Turanian people, is converted to Judaism and seeks to impose this religion upon all its subjects. This precipitates a civil war which leads to the collapse of the Khazar Empire. Several rebel Khazar tribes join the Hungarian tribal federation which was led by the Magyar tribe. At that time the Hungarians were established in their own independent state of Dentumagyaria, between the Avar and Khazar empires.

895-96

After the collapse of the Khazar Empire, the Magyars and the other Hungarian tribes move West into the Etelköz region, where the Covenant of Blood takes place. This Covenant effectively creates the Magyar (Hungarian) nation which proceeds with the reconquest of the Carpathian Basin and its surrounding regions. After expelling foreign encroaching powers from the Carpathian region and uniting with their previously settled Hun-Avar ethnic kin, the Magyars establish the Hungarian State in 896 as the successor state to the Hun and Avar empires.
MAGYARS: http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan/magyar/magyar.htm

10th c.

Following their victory over the invading Germans in 907, the Hungarians launch a series of punitive and pre-emptive military campaigns in Europe with the objective of preventing the formation of a large powerful united empire in the West, which would represent a serious threat to the security of the Hungarian State, and of recovering the Avar gold treasures pillaged by the invading Germans during the previous century. The Hungarians thus secure their state's position as a great power.

997

Following the reign of the Hungarian ruler Géza, during which foreign interests gain increasing influence under the guise of Christianization, Géza's son István (Stephen) is installed as king of Hungary with the assistance of foreign armed intervention, in violation of ancient Hungarian traditions and of the sacred Covenant of Blood. Koppány, the rightful heir to the throne and leader of the national resistance is captured and quartered. Under the rule of István, feudalism and Christianity are imposed by force. The ancient Hungarian runic scriptures are burned and the traditionalist leaders and priests persecuted and exterminated. The Westernization of Hungary results in the enslavement of the Hungarian population under an increasingly foreign feudal ruling class and church where foreign influences and foreign interests become predominant.

VOROSILOV ; MY TURANIC BROTHER ...... FACE IT !!!!!

"One who doesn't know his past, cannot have a future : ATATÜRK"

Best regards,
Hamsi

Scythians were and will always be Iranic speaking. Your stupid Panturkist and Panturanist historians cannot change this.

http://www.livius.org/sao-sd/scythians/scythians.html
Scythians/Sacae
The Central-Asian steppe has been the home of nomad tribes for centuries. Being nomads, they roamed across the plains, incidentally attacking the urbanized countries to the south, east and west.

The first to describe the life style of these tribes was a Greek researcher, Herodotus, who lived in the fifth century BCE. Although he concentrates on the tribes living in modern Ukraine, which he calls Scythians, we may extrapolate his description to people in Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and possibly Mongolia, even though Herodotus usually calls these eastern nomads 'Sacae'. In fact, just as the Scythians and the Sacae shared the same life style, they had the same name: in their own language, which belonged to the Indo-iranian family, they called themselves Skudat ('archers'?). The Persians rendered this name as Sak? and the Greeks as Skythai. The Chinese called them, at a later stage in history, Sai.

Tribes are, almost by definition, very loose organizations. Every now and then, new tribal coalitions came into being, and sometimes, new languages became prominent among the nomads from the Central-Asian steppe.

The oldest group we know of, is usually called Indo-Iranian. (The old name 'Aryan' is no longer used.) There are no contemporary reports about their migration, but it can be reconstructed from their language. It is reasonably certain that at the beginning of the second millennium BCE, the speakers of the Proto-Indo-Iranian language moved from Ukraine to the southeast. From an archaeological point of view, their migration is attested in the change from the Yamnaya culture into the Andronovo culture.

They invaded the country that was later called Afghanistan, where they separated in an Iranian and an Indian branch. The first group settled in Aria, a name that lives on in our word 'Iran', where they settled after 1000 BCE; the second group reached the Punjab c.1500 BCE. From the second millennium on, three groups of languages can be discerned: the Indian group (Vedic, Sanskrit...), the Scythian group (in the homeland on the steppe), and the Iranian group (Gathic, Persian...). Even when, in the sixth century, the Persian empire was at its most powerful and the Persians lived in comfortable towns, they still remembered their earlier, nomadic life style:

The Persian nation contains a number of tribes, and the ones which Cyrus assembled and persuaded to revolt were the Pasargadae, Maraphii, and Maspii, upon which all the other tribes are dependent. Of these, the Pasargadae are the most distinguished; they contain the clan of the Achaemenians from which spring the Perseid kings. Other tribes are the Panthialaei, Derusiaei, Germanii, all of which are attached to the soil, the remainder -the Dahae, Mardi, Dropici, Sagarti, being nomadic. (Herodotus, Histories 1.125; tr. by Aubrey de Selincourt).

The second group of nomads known to have gone south, is the tribe of the Cimmerians. Their name Gimirru -given to them by the Assyrians- means 'people traveling back and forth'; this name still exists in our word 'Crimea'. The Cimmerians destroyed the kingdoms of Urartu (an old name for Armenia) and Phrygia (in Turkey) in the first quarter of the seventh century BCE; other Scythians reached Ascalon in Palestine. According to Herodotus, they ruled the northwest of Iran (which Herodotus calls Media) for twenty-eight years.

In the sixth, fifth and fourth centuries BCE, the Persians discerned several nomad tribes on the Central-Asian steppe. As we have seem, they called them Sak?. We know the names of these tribes from Persian royal inscriptions and can add information from Herodotus and other Greek authors.

The Sak? haumavarg? ('haoma-drinking Sacae') were subjected by Cyrus the Great. Herodotus calls them Amyrgian Scythians. Haoma was a trance inducing drink, made from fly agaric. This mushroom does not occur south of the river Amudar'ya (Oxus). Consequently, we may assume that these nomads lived in Uzbekistan. Herodotus informs us that they wore trousers and pointed caps; they fought as archers. He also mentions their use of the battle ax (which they called sagaris).
The Sak? tigrakhaud? ('Sacae with pointed hats') were defeated in 520/519 BCE by the Persian king Darius the Great, who gave this tribe a new leader. One of the earlier leaders was killed, the other, named Skunkha, was taken captive and is visible on the relief at Behistun. (It is possible that Darius created a new tribe from several earlier tribes.) Herodotus calls the Sak? tigrakhaud? the Orthocorybantians ('pointed hat men'), and informs us that they lived in the same tax district as the Medes. This suggests that the Sak? tigrakhaud? lived on the banks of the ancient lower reaches of the Amudar'ya, which used to have a mouth in the Caspian Sea south of Krasnovodsk. The pointed hat is a kind of turban.
The Ap? Sak? ('Water Sacae') are also known as the Pausikoi, as Herodotus prefers to call them. Later authors, like Arrian (in his Anabasis) and Ammianus Marcellinus (in his Roman history) call them the Abian Scythians; still later, we encounter them as the Apasiaki, first east and later southwest of Lake Aral. They must be situated along the ancient lower reaches of the Amudar'ya.
The tribe that Herodotus calls 'Massagetes' must have been called something like M?h-Sak? in Persian, which means 'Moon Sacae', but this is confusing. Ma-Sak? means Moon Sacae, and it is known that the Massagetes venerated only one god, the Sun. The Massagetes were responsible for the death of the Persian king Cyrus the Great (in December 530). From Herodotus' description, it is clear that they lived along the Syrdar'ya (Jaxartes).
The nomad tribe known as Dah?, which means 'robbers', is mentioned for the first time in the Daiva inscription of Xerxes; he must have subjected them. Herodotus calls the Dai a Persian nomad tribe (above), but they can not have lived in Persia proper, because they are mentioned in the Anabasis of Arrian as living along the lower reaches of the Syrdar'ya. In the days of the Macedonian king Alexander the Great, they were famous for their mounted archers. It is possible that this tribe desintegrated after the fall of the Persian empire; one of the tribes that came into being, was that of the Parni, who went south in the third century BCE and founded the Parthian empire.
The Sak? paradray? ('Sacae across the sea') were living in Ukraine. These are the nomads that the Greeks called Scythians. In 514 or 513 BCE, king Darius launched a disastrous campaign against the Sak? paradray?. Herodotus gives a long description of their way of life and discerns many tribes in the neighborhood.

The Royal Scythians lived in the southern part of Ukraine, immediately north of the Greek towns.
The Scythian-Farmers seem to be identical with the archaeological culture known as Chernoles, which has been identified with the Iron Age Slavs.
Probably, we may identify the Neuri with the so-called Milograd culture, the archaeological remains of which have been found on the confluence of the rivers Dnepr and Pripyat, north of modern Kiev. They may be the ancestors of the Balts.
Herodotus' story about the Man-eaters received some confirmation with the excavation of human remains that were gnawed at by human jaws; these excavations were along the river Sula, to the southeast of Kiev.
The Argippaeans are sometimes identified with the ancestors of the Calmucs.
The Issedones may be identical to the Wu-sun who (according to Chinese texts) lived on the shore of Lake Balchash.

The Sauromatae are mentioned by Herodotus as the descendants of Scythian fathers and Amazon mothers. Of course, this is a legend, but the tribe did exist and was to move to the west after 130 BCE. In the process, they assimilated the Royal Scythians (above). In the first century BCE, the Sarmatian coalition consisted of four tribes:

The Iazyges, which had once lived on the shores of the Sea of Azov, were now living on the northern bank of the Danube. They were to move to what is now eastern Hungary, where they settled in c.50 CE. They were defeated by the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius (in 175).
The Urgi lived on the banks of the Dnepr, south of Kiev.
The Royal Scythians were still living in the south of Ukraine and had become the most important Sarmatian tribe. They and the Urgi became known as the Sarmati.
The Roxolani initially lived between the Don and the Dnepr but settled on the lower reaches of the Danube, where the Iazyges had been living before they migrated to Hungary.

The steppe nomads frequently attacked the urbanized regions to the east, south or west. Usually, this created great havoc, but after some time, they went back to their homeland. However, it was necessary for the attacked states to defend themselves. The Indians thought that they did not need walls because they were was protected by the Himalayas; c.110 BCE, the valley of the Indus was run over. The Chinese built the 'Wall of ten thousand miles' to protect themselves. The rulers of the Persian empire, from Cyrus the Great to Alexander the Great, may have built walls as well. These walls are mentioned in the eighteenth sura of the Quran and in medieval legend, but cannot be identified with known archaeological remains. It is certain, however, that both Cyrus and Alexander built garrison towns along the river Syrdar'ya or Jaxartes; our sources call them Cyreschata and Alexandria Eschat?.

Nomadism continued to exist into the first and second millennium CE. Several tribes may be mentioned. The Alani -whose language lives on in modern Ossetian- are known from the first century CE; they lived in modern Kazakhstan. Later, they moved to the west, being pushed forward by the Huns, which are known from Chinese texts as the Xiung-nu. Later tribal formations were the Avars, the Chasars, the Bulgars, the Turks, the Magyars, the Cumans, the Tatars, the Mongols and the Cossacks.