Let's talk only history and politics without insults and dreams

[bisserk]

the land north of mongolia is called siberia

modern russia (current european part of russia) is actually basically western section of siberia

what makes you so sure tatars are same exact tribes as turks of turkey, what makes you think they are mongols, what makes you think they were not already there in russia since the begining of time. Is there any particular records regarding tatars? theres alot of legends about their origin and ancestry...but one thing is for definitive sure, we know alot about mongols and ghenghis khan and tatars had nothing to do with tme prior to their invasion of russia which only means they pre date mongol invasion!

there are many turkic tribes, some are similar but might not be related directly, for example mongols and tatars, siberians and lapps

we also know for SURE that most russians are descendents of viking barbarians...where do viking barbarians originate from?!!! NOT RUSSIA

THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT RUSSIA SHOULD REALLY BE CALLED TATARSTAN!


the viking barbarian rus shouldnt complain about mongol racial supremacy, the filthy viking russian are filthy barbarians that killed lapps, finns and worked their way into tatarstan . they are barbaric animals...

russia should be split between tatarstan, and urkraine

since a urkrainian was the one that allied with mongols to extinguish all the vikings in russia

when mongols invaded "russia", there were like 70% swedish speaking, only 30% was slavic...all the slavs could be trace directly, DIRECTLY from urkraine and polamd..its no coincidence that alexander nevsky is in fact born in kiev..there were not many slavs in northern russia at the time, he allied with mongols and tatars and slaughtered all the vikings (majority of russian blood today) and made them speak slavic...the reason the tatars and mongols let this happen is because they were busy somewhere else (middle east)

[AJat]

Hold on Mr. Bisserk,

You said, “we also know for SURE that most russians are descendents of viking barbarians...where do viking barbarians originate from?!!! NOT RUSSIA”

How can you be sure that the Vikings did not originate from Central Asia? Do they not habits of Scandinavians pretty much Scythic?

Please read the Edda – from more information on the Getic or Scythic origin, at least in part, of the Vikings.

Best Wishes,

[bisserk]

this is the most ridiculous idea I have ever come accross

where do you come up with idea about vikings in central asia...

scythians were aryan speaking, they came from aryan invaders, aryans are not native of india well chronicled writtings in indian literature (2000BC invasion by aryans).

the only CIRCUMSTANCIAL..not fact CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence of germanics to be originated(LOL) anywhere in central asia I will possibly accept would be to show me 100 eskimos isolated somewhere in siberia(with no outside contact whatsoever) speaking a type of german tongue...I dont even care about their appearance, simply this doesnt exist...all making your stuff even more ludricuous...RUS are viking barbarians from SWEDEN, period

[AJat]

Hi Bisserk, the following are a list of evidences of Getic (Scythian) and Gothic connections, also Gaut and Getic connections:

Patrick Geary [46], “Procopius, after distinguishing the variety of Goths, Sauromatae and Melanchlaeni, two people from Herodotus, and then went on to say that they were known as the Getic ethne. Actually, he said, they differed only in their names; in appearance, laws, and religion, they were exactly the same.”

Wolfram [48] says the following about a people called Gauts in Scandinavia citing Procopius:

Procopius, who is the first to speak of the Gauts in Thule, knows about their veneration of Ares. He writes about it as if he is speaking of the Scythians, Thracians, Getae, or even of the Goths themselves. A similarity between the Goths and the Gauts is probably also expressed by the tribal name Gautigoths, which appears in Cassidorus’s Scandinavian list of peoples.

Samuel Kliger [47] in his book The Goths in England cites Jordanes who according to him says, “the Getae we have proved in a previous passage to be Goths, on the testimony of Orosius Paulus.” Wolfram [48] adds, “Still Orosius listed the three wildest Scythian peoples of his day: the Alans, Huns, and Goths.” Thus Orosius identified the Goths with the Scythian Getae, but also used the word “Scythian” generically, probably geographically, to apply to Huns.

Returning to Jordanes, he [50] said in his Getica, about Massagetae and origins of Goths, “Then Cyrus, King of Persians…waged an unsuccessful war against Tomyris, queen of the Getae…the Getae and their queen defeated, conquered and overwhelmed the Parthians (Persians) and took rich plunder from them. Therefore, for the first time the race of the Goths saw silken tents.”

Isidore of Seville [55] in his History of Goths, Vandals, and Suevi, “It is certain that the Goths are a very old nation…. The Goths are descended from Magog, the son of Japhet, and are shown to have spring from the same origin as the Scythians, from whom they do not differ greatly in name….Formerly, however, the learned were accustomed to call then Getae rather than Gog and Magog.”

Further Wolfram [48] writes, “The Greek geographer mentions the Gutae, Goutai , as one of the seven peoples inhabiting the island of Scandi-Scandinavia.” Further, a Scandinavian chronicler in The Geats of Beowulf wrote the following about the Scythian origin of Scandinavians [42], “certain tribes….when they had migrated from Scythia into this region, called it Scythia, as if it were worthy of the name of their first country…Moreover, those tribes…I don’t know why for some reason they were called “Getae”…were also called “Massagetae” after they entered this region. Then, as is usual, when the name had been changed, those who were formerly called “Getae” and afterwards “Gothi”.…”. It is for this possible reason that the first Old English dictionary, as per Kliger [47] reads, “Under “Geatar” we find the simple definition: “Jutae, Getae, Gothes”; he then [47] cites William Camden who says, “These Iutae, who had that name (as many think) from the Gutes, Getes, or Gothes (for in a manuscript booke, we read Geatun) did for certaine inhabite the upper part of Cimbica Chersonesus, which still the Danes call Iuitland.” Further Kliger [47] cites the 1670 work De Anglorun Gentis Origine Disceptatio, “Those people are called Gutae in the laws of Edward the Confessor, and Geatuni in the Annales Petroburgenses; by others they are called Jotuni and Jetae; by the Danish writers, Jutae and Juitae; for these are one and the same name: Getae and Giotae, and Gutae, and Geatuni, and Jotuni, and Jetae, and Jutae, and Juitae.”

C. Kephart believed [25], “The Goths originally were known to the Greeks as the Getae, but often were referred to as Scythians, a geographical term. Thus, such compound tribal names as Massagetae, Thyssagetae, Tyrigetae, etc. show a striking analogy to the later names of Ostrogoths and Visigoths used by the same people. The later Roman name was Gothi or Gothones.”.

Interestingly enough, Prof Leake said that the Goths were [42] called “by the Romans Getae, and by the Saxons Geatas, from the Gothic word Jaet, a giant [by which is no more is meant than a stout man, great warrior or hero].”

In a footnote of George Rawlingson’s 1862 book on Herodotus, Sir Henry, his brother, [53] writes, “The identity of the Getae with the Goths of later times is more than a plausible conjecture. It may be regarded as historically certain.”

Work cited:

25. Kephart, C., Races of Mankind Their Origin and Migration, Philosophical Library, New York, 1960, pp 255, 263, 264, 463, 466, 473, 481, 482, 493, 502, 525.
42. Leake, J.A., The Geats of Beowulf, University of Wisconsin Press, Madison Milwaukee, and London, 1967, pp. 13-15, 18, 22, 68, 93-94, 172

46. Geary, P., The Myth of Nations, The Medieval Origins of Europe, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey, 2002, p. 57.

47. Kliger, S. The Goths in England, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, 1952, pp 11,12, 15, 16, 21.

48.Wolfram, H. History of the Goths, University of California Press, Berkeley, 1988, pp. 21, 22, 28, 39-40.

50. Jordanes, the Gothic History (Getica), translated by Mierow, C.C., Barnes and Noble Inc., New York, 1966, pp. 3-4, 60,61, 67-69.


53. Rawlingson, George, with Rawlingson, H. and Wilkinson, The History of Herodotus. A new English version, ed. With copious notes and appendices, illustrating the history and geography of Herodotus, from the most recent sources of information; and embodying the chief results, historical and ethnographical, which have been obtained in the progress of cuneiform and hieroglyphical discovery, J. Murray Publishers, London 1862, p. 84.

55. Isidore of Seville, History of Goths, Vandals, and Suevi, translated by Donini, G., and Ford, G.B., E.J. Brill, Leiden, 1970, pp 3, 30.

[AJat]

Hi Mr. Bisserk,

Here is a 1687 Scandinavian (Upsala) work relating Swedes, Goths, and Gauts with Scythians (or Getae).

http://www.dacia.org/lundius/clundius-eng.pdf

Remember the Massagetae or Great Getae’s original homeland is somewhere near modern Uzbekistan and Kazakstan.

Best Wishes,

[AJat]

To any Turkish language speaker:

What does the word “Jatah” or “Chetah” mean in Turkish?

Regards,