What is the difference between Russian and Ukrainian

[Da_Kapital]

Hahaha! Don't worry, you're not the only foreigner to mispronounce in Russian! The language has some very non-European sounds that can be extremely difficult to pronounce. I have known non-Russian Westerners who have learned the pronounciation suprisingly well- but when they were young and surrounded by Russian-speaking people/audio tapes.
NEVER pronounce "xorosho" with a "k"- its totally wrong. The "x" sounds and should be pronounced (in most cases) as one would laugh "ha". Try saying "harosho"- that's probably the best you'll do. As for the "yous", the book is writing bs because I don't curl my tongue back or any of that crap- but that's probably because I'm a native speaker (I presume its different then). With the "i'" sound you're probably ou of luck- few foreigners far and wide can properly pronounce it...I advise yuo to work on the "r" sound.

[Voyager13b]

Originally posted by fairbro
How does one pronounce "x" in Russian? It seems to me that sometimes it sounds like English "k" and sometimes it sounds like "h." The only way I can describe it is a sound halfway between "h" and "k." When I say "(x)orosho" in Russian class, I try to make a sound like I am going to say "h" but then finish with "k". It takes too long to get your mouth to do all this, so I usually just say "korosho."

What's worse is the letter "bi", as in "Mbi" (we) or "Bbi" (you). Does anyone know how to properly say this? According to the book, you are supposed to curl your tongue backwards to the roof of your mouth while saying "e." By the time you can perform all this, the person you are talking to has probably lost interest in what you were saying.

Fairbro,

Don't worry about it too much. After more time passes, you will get it. X is usually a "harder" sound than h, but as you talk to people, and listen to various films, you will see that the sound is not cast in concrete. After a while, you will stop exaggerating the elements of the sound as you get used to making it, and it will become natural to you.

Diagrams that show the relationship between your tongue and mouth are there only to help you figure out how to make the sound in the first place. Sometimes they are more trouble than good, as many people take them to extremes, and contort their mouths to the point that it hurts to make any sound at all. Look at the diagrams, but spend your time listening and repeating until the sounds work for you. Use your PC to record and playback your own voice too. That will help expose errors that your brain will try to cover up during real time practice.

Also, as silly as it sounds, try to "sound Russian" when you practise speaking. Without deliberate effort, lots of people transpose their local accent on to the new language they study. Nobody in Moscow speaks Russian with a Hoboken accent.

bi isn't that tough. Most people who don't get it fail because it sounds unusual, and they don't have anyone who knows better around them to give them confidence in their pronunciation of the letter. In that case, they fall back into self defense mode, and try to make it sound like a familliar English sound, and pray that nobody will notice. They will though.....

Get a good audio tape or a native speaker, and work on it for a little while. Then it will become second nature. One of the "Brat" films has a segment where Bodrov is reading a Russian eye chart. Loop it on your DVD player, and practise.

You'll get it. It just takes time and determination.



Voyager

[Voyager13b]

Originally posted by Da_Kapital


With the "i'" sound you're probably ou of luck- few foreigners far and wide can properly pronounce it...I advise yuo to work on the "r" sound.

D_Kap,

Encourage the guy already. Pronouncing bi isn't rocket science. Many people just want to get by, but there are lots of foreigners who are either determined to learn correctly, or who need to learn correctly, and do a great job of it. Contrary to the popular saying, old dogs can learn new tricks.....if they want to. You were exposed to both languages at a young age, but you will never "have learned" either one completely. To stay up to date with subtle changes, additions, and subtractions, you have to maintain full contact with each language. I suspect that you will do that. So will I (even though I still have a long row to hoe...).

An American (or Russian) who took Spanish in high school might be able to "communicate" for life, but that isn't the same as someone who has the desire to ADOPT a new language. Nobody knows if a new Russian language student will take it to heart, and have the determination to really go for it, but the world is full of true multi lingual people who started their trek well past the age of 20, and there might be even more if they were met with a little encouragement at the outset.

I'm sure that both of us would like to see the Russian language thrive in the future. Success isn't genetic, and it isn't determined by age. A little support goes a long way.

Voyager

[olesia5]

vsem privet!ja ne dumaju cto ruskij i ukrainskij jaziki otlecajutsia ot drug dguga. vi tak ne dumaete?esla tolko grama.

[rooskyprerebodchik]

Ukranian may use the same alphabet, but the words are all spelled very differently. My Russian teacher is Ukranian, and has emphasized this repeatedly.

[KMK]

The Ukrainian and Russian alphabets are very close, but not identical.

Ukrainian is a distinct language - neither a dialect, nor just "gramatically different" from Russian, though the two languages are similar - ask a Russian what "yushka" is. But then, Serb and Bulgarian are similar to Russian too, and Slovak is similar to Ukrainian.

As for different spellings, not always. "Oko", or "sobaka" for example, are spelled the same in both languages.

[rooskyprerebodchik]

My teacher once spoke ukrainian at me. Some of the words even have the same pronunciation, but completely different meanings as the russian word. It's a really weird comparison.