Barak

[Nonson]

Do you netizens realize that Barak is sounding like and acting like a Fundamentalist Christian of late? Wonder if he is secretly appealling to the Christian Coalition and Pat Robertson for moral support? Peace

[Dr_Woland]

>> Wonder if he is secretly appealling to the Christian Coalition and Pat Robertson for moral support? <<

It's all part of the "demonisation" of the Islamic world.

After the fall of the USSR, the West (led by the USA) needed someone new to hate. You could compare it to Star Trek - once peace had been made with the Klingons, some new and more fiendish and untrustworthy enemy was needed.

In "1984", the citizens were constantly reminded of the threat posed to them by one of the two other world-powers in existence. Which one it was did not matter - only that national pride and effort were determined not by a desire to do well, but by paranoid fear of an unknown enemy who was believed to be forever plotting the downfall of Oceania.

Part of this phenomenon is connected with foreign policy blunders of the most extraordinary kind in the past. When Ayatollah Khomeni came to power in Iran, the West (USA) felt obliged to demonise him - making it much easier for him to denounce the USA continuously in return. Why the USA felt threatened by an obscure muslim cleric remains unknown.

And then, they made an enormous logical blunder. On the old "my enemy's enemy is my friend" assumption, they began to arm Iran's enemy - the Baghdad regime of Saddam Hussein. They knew NOTHING of Hussein, except that he was the enemy of Iran - so they equipped him with the latest high-tech military hardware for both offence and defence purposes.

Suddenly ALL arabic and islamic nations were the enemy of the USA - regardless of the vastly different regimes and administrations prevailing in a far-from-cohesive islamic world.

Barak is no fool. By appealing to the Christian Fundamentalists (especially since their boy George Dubya is the heir apparent to the Oval Office now) he hopes to keep the USA on-side against the "islamic menace".

It will be interesting to see whether the USA will go with its true economic interests (support for the arab world) or its irrational allegiance to Israel, despite all the atrocities Israel continues to practice against the Palestinians. Bush is a puppet president, his wires get pulled by big rich Christian fundamentalist families down South. I have a feeling I know which wires they're going to pull :-(

Lest anyone doubt this - did anyone hear much of a word about defending the rights of the Kosovan Albanians because they were MUSLIMS? Nope, of course you didn't. In fact, Clinton and Allbright didn't care much about them at ALL - they were merely a diversion to attack a "commie" and go down in history as a champion of freedom, instead of a philanderer with a background in crooked property development deals.

Dr W.

[Armelius]

This is the first post for the word "islam" on the open board. All you pretenders can either go to the religion board or shut the hell up with this omnipotent invisible man heresy.

[Shaft]

In "1984", the citizens were constantly reminded of the threat posed to them by one of the two other world-powers in existence. Which one it was did not matter - only that national pride and effort were determined not by a desire to do well, but by paranoid fear of an unknown enemy who was believed to be forever plotting the downfall of Oceania.

Good description of Islamism...an inherently oppositional ideology which is always seeking an infidel...one who is still resisting Allahs message despite his clear signs etc...one who is constantly humiliating the muslims with their blatant non-Islamic heresies and evil lifestyle that is offensive to the muslims, and that only exists to further 'oppress' the 'citizens' of the Ummah. And it never ceases to amaze me that so called 'liberals' always try to make tenuous, contrived analogies between 1984 and modern western societies, while making excuses for genuinely and obviously totalitarian '1984 style' surveillance/torture based societies like Hussains Iraq.

Part of this phenomenon is connected with foreign policy blunders of the most extraordinary kind in the past. When Ayatollah Khomeni came to power in Iran, the West (USA) felt obliged to demonise him - making it much easier for him to denounce the USA continuously in return. Why the USA felt threatened by an obscure muslim cleric remains unknown.

Ayatollah Khomeini, whose regime was responsible for one of the most brutal and repressive Islamic regimes of modern times was merely 'demonised'? LOL I'd like to see this Dr Woland trying to explain that to the Iranians today, the majority of whom who now detest the Mullahs and their Islamic revolution for what they have done to their people and their country.

And then, they made an enormous logical blunder. On the old "my enemy's enemy is my friend" assumption, they began to arm Iran's enemy - the Baghdad regime of Saddam Hussein. They knew NOTHING of Hussein, except that he was the enemy of Iran - so they equipped him with the latest high-tech military hardware for both offence and defence purposes.

I think this is a tactic that is used by combatants of all types, in many situations...we even see it on discussion boards, like this one. It is a logical blunder to fail to see into the future when Saddam Hussein would become the greatest of the various local evils? Don't think so - that's just sh1t happening.

Suddenly ALL arabic and islamic nations were the enemy of the USA - regardless of the vastly different regimes and administrations prevailing in a far-from-cohesive islamic world.

Only because the Ummah sees any kind of action taken against even the most obviously evil muslims such as Saddam Hussein as a slap in the face to Allah. Imagine...a dirty infidel thinking he can act against a MUSLIM...even a genocidal one who kills muslims by the lorryload every week? All you find when you look into Islamic motivation on this is bigotry and chauvinism.

It will be interesting to see whether the USA will go with its true economic interests (support for the arab world) or its irrational allegiance to Israel, despite all the atrocities Israel continues to practice against the Palestinians. Bush is a puppet president, his wires get pulled by big rich Christian fundamentalist families down South. I have a feeling I know which wires they're going to pull :-(

Of course today it is positively evil for the USA to act according to its true economic interests in the middle east

Lest anyone doubt this - did anyone hear much of a word about defending the rights of the Kosovan Albanians because they were MUSLIMS? Nope, of course you didn't. In fact, Clinton and Allbright didn't care much about them at ALL - they were merely a diversion to attack a "commie" and go down in history as a champion of freedom, instead of a philanderer with a background in crooked property development deals.

Can anyone think how would it have made sense to defend them 'because they were muslims' anyway? Do we normally defend people just because of their religion? Nope! Does that mean we don't care about the people we are defending? Nope!

[Shaft]

Islam isn't just a religion...it is a system for organising human life at many levels...that includes politics. It isn't some isolated abstract theological discussion - it impacts on the world in very real ways(it is of course not the only religion to do so),so no, Armelius, discussion of Islam cannot be confined to the religion board.

[Armelius]

Originally posted by Shaft
Islam isn't just a religion...it is a system for organising human life at many levels...that includes politics. It isn't some isolated abstract theological discussion - it impacts on the world in very real ways(it is of course not the only religion to do so),so no, Armelius, discussion of Islam cannot be confined to the religion board.

Then you have the battle between fundamentalism and secularism. If you believe in god why do you need government (fundamentalism)? If man should make his own destiny and allow god to exist then you have secularism.

Which belief do you fight for shaft?

you are both WRONG. So are all the "fundamentalists, by design.

Here is a nice quote I found for you guys:

"Sharon was a killer obsessed with hatred of Palestinians. I had promised Arafat that his people would not get any harm. Sharon, however, ignored this commitment entirely. Sharon's word is worth nil."~Ambassador Philip Habib President Ronald Reagan's Special Middle East Envoy in 1982

GLORYTOGODINTHEHIGHEST,T.