Israel

[Mission010]

Israel is a democracy nestled in the midst of many enemies. As a nation is has the power to eradicate all Palestinians within its borders. It could truly unleash the full pwer of its military forces on the relatively few Palestinians that inhabit Israeli land, and the territories of the west bank, and gaza if they wished.

Instead Israel has remained relatively peaceful through bombings, riots, violent protests of all sorts. They have given large peices of land that they had previously controlled as peace offerings, even offering Palestinians large chunks of Jerusalem in return for peace. These offerings have been refused as the Palestinian violence has continued.

The truth is, here will never be contentment amung the Palestinians until every Israeli, every Jew is dead. Jihad demands it! Their religion demands it!

They send their children into the fray, knowing they may be shot, offerings on the alter of propoganda. Aren't the Israelis terrible for defending their own land?

Who's land? Yes Israel's, and no one else's.
To make it a little easier to understand from the American mindset: how would the U.S. government react to murderous protests from Native Americans. If Native Americans were bombing people in our cities. if they were enlarging their reservations to include greater and greater areas of U.S. land, what would our government do. We would send the military in and crush the rebelion as we did in Waco (not that i agreed with the democratic party's solution to Waco, I didn't), we would react as we did when the terrorists have bombed our great government buildings. We would fight. we would not discuss peacful proposals with Native American chiefs we would tell them the way it was going to be, and if they refused to conform we would crush them. Isn't it then rediculous to push the Israelis to give up anything for these Palestinian terrorists.

Thankfully for us Americans, the Native Americans of our country are civilized people who engage themselves in our political process and make their voices heard without murdering Americans every day untill they get their way.

Palestinians should be included in Israeli governmental processes as citizens of the State of Israel. This is their given lot if they choose to live in Israel. Its just the way things are. Palestinians must stop the bloodshed of Israelis as well as that of their own people.

Relating this to Russia, we must relize also that that nation is made up of many ethnically diverse groups of native people who also could uprise at any time to try and take back the land that was once rightfully theirs, just like Native Americans, just like Palastinians. However the world would not condemn Russia for putting down uprisings by their native people, they would not put down the U.S. if there was an uprising of Native Americans. So why is Israel condemned for trying to put an end to terrorism.

[This message has been edited by Mission010 (edited 23 November 2000).]

Greetings Mission010,

The religious bullsh.t has totally ruined your ability to reason. You are operating in total delusion.

Please limit your comments to Bingo, Tobacco Chewing, Bible Thumping and such. Your comments on SOCIAL and POLITICAL matters are totally wrong and painfully uninformed.

Your posting above is not worthy of a topical response.

Good Luck.


[This message has been edited by B.Ungaro (edited 23 November 2000).]

[oca]

Mission10:


<<how would the U.S. government react to murderous protests from Native Americans. If Native Americans were bombing people in our cities.>> Where have you been MIssion10? Do you live in Mars?

<<We would send the military in and crush the rebelion as we did in Waco>> Do you ever read a newspaper?, listen to the radio?

<<Thankfully for us Americans, the Native Americans of our country are civilized people who engage themselves in our political process and make their voices heard without murdering Americans every day untill they get their way.>> Are you under the effects of a controlled substance?

American Natives have every right to be angry with our goverment, after all, we stole their lands, so where did you get the idea that they are a happy lot?

[This message has been edited by oca (edited 29 November 2000).]

Greetings,

For those who are interested, Israel is not a DEMOCRACY. To this day, Israel does not have a CONSTITUTION. There are no CIVIL RIGHTS. The people are ruled by a collection of Orthodox Religious dogmas. Example: A jew can not have a CIVIL WEDDING in Israel. Example: A citizen of Israel, who is of ARAB
ORIGINS, can not serve in the MILITARY. Example: Arabs have no property rights. The UN charter that established Israel plainly stated that ARABS have the right to own property in Israel. To this day the Government of Israel has not recognized this right. Almost 3 MILLION ARABS have been thrown off their land. These are the peole who are living in REFUGEE CAMPS in LEBANON and JORDAN. They want to return to Israel and be compensated for their land. Israel has
a RACIST policy on IMMIGRATION. NON-JEWS, particularly ARABS are not allowed to immigrate to Israel. Example: Certain RELIGIOUS GROUPS are given special rights that the other citizens do not receive.

Israel has a right to exists. This right was given to them by the UNITED NATION and not some BIBLICAL BULLSH.T A nation that was created by the UN, has totally disregarded other policies of the UN. If Israel would agree to live by the rules of CIVILITY and the UN, we would not have any problems there.
They must, sooner or later, comply with UN RESOLUTIONS 242 and 338 and all problems will be resolved.




[This message has been edited by B.Ungaro (edited 24 November 2000).]

[Mission010]

OCA

In case you are unable to figure it out...

I used the idea of Native Americans as anagoulous to the Palestinians, and how society in the Mid East could be peaceful, if they followed the example of our Native American people.

Waco was not used as an esample of Native American behavior, but as an example of how the United States deals with terrorism within its borders. And that, just because some people peacfully locked themselves inside a compound. They weren't even a threat to the common people as the Arabs are.

>>American Natives have every right to be angry with our goverment, after all, we stole their lands, so where did you get the idea that they are a happy lot?<<

Yes, we did steal the Native Americans lands, and no, they are not happy. I never said they were. However this also means that you personally owe them your house, your car, your job, and everything else this country has given you because it is truly theirs. Are you going to give it back to them?

You won't, yet they live in peace with us, and obey our government's laws.

Then we have Israel, the land never was the Palestinians, and they can't live in peace with the ruling government of Israel. Yet we tell Israel to give the land back, yet we won't give our own back to the Native Americans. How hypocritical. You keep making my points better than I could OCA.

[Mission010]

I'm not sure whether it is worthwhile to answer someone so naive in this matter as is B, but I'll give it a shot once.

>>For those who are interested, Israel is not a DEMOCRACY.<<

This doesn't have a whole lot to do with my main point anyway. But depedning on the definition he gives to "Democracy," I suppose in his mind it may not be. But then again, for those who are interested, the USA isn't a democracy either. Its a republic.

>>The people are ruled by a collection of Orthodox Religious dogmas.<<

This is completely untrue. If B understood anything about the country in question, he would realize that it is a very secular nation.

>>Almost 3 MILLION ARABS have been thrown off their land. <<

Not during a peacetime attack on unarmed civilians, but during wars that were started by Arabic factions against Israelis.

>>Israel has a right to exists. This right was given to them by the UNITED NATION <<

However you do forget to assert that all Israeli land was won at the expense of their lives. They had no outside help when winning their land. Yes, I suppose the British turned it over to them, but it was only through a fighting and spilling their own blood that they gained their independence form the Arab nations. When Britain turned the land of Israel over to Israel, they left and war followed. Because though the land had been given to them the Arabic people tried, even at that time to take it away from them.

>>If Israel would agree to live by the rules of CIVILITY and the UN, we would not have any problems there.<<

If the UN would not apply double standards (since when does the UN allow unchecked terrorism), then Israel would be allowed to crush any terrorist activity within its borders.

Greetings Mission010,

You are driven by RELIGIOUS FERVOR. You do not realize how wrong your statements are.
Just a few EXAMPLES:

1. Orthodox Jews are given priviliges that other citizens of Israel do not enjoy.

2. There are no CIVIL RIGHTS in Israel. No Constitution. The laws are based on Orthodox
Jewish Customs and DOGMAS. Example: a Jew can not get a CIVIL WEDDING.

3. Immigration is limited to people of JEWISH faith. That is RACIST.

You might call Israel secular, but it's far from it. Your views are dictated by BIBLICAL
BULLSH.T, and not reality.

Good Luck.