GHETTO NATION

Originally posted by Shaft
"Do YOU think everybody is getting what they deserve, Shaft? What about the people of Turkey, who got screwed by the sanctions against Saddam Hussein in neighboring Iraq? Then, when the Turkish government turned down a big American BRIBE to support the criminal war against Iraq, the Americans tried to foment a military coup in Turkey. Where is the "empathy" or "morality" in all this?"

How is this a reply to what I said about social darwinism? Ignoring...I am attempting to determine if YOU are in fact a subscriber to this point of view, comrade Shaft- ignoring it is not. OK, a different angle- you tell me what YOU imagine is a Social Darwinist and we shall see if our definitions match, fair enough? Yeh, the Nazis were, I agree, but who else?

"There are more of them around than you know- eyeradi8 is one, but he will probably deny it, lying as usual."

So it is Social Darwinists under the bed huh? I would also deny being a Social Darwinist - does that make me one too?No, It is just that eye's "eyedelogy" is relatively well known to me, while yours is not, see above. I hope you do not share his personal integrity deficiency.

"All true, TODAY. Yet this was not always the case, as history shows. Both the Mormons and the Zionist Jews were driven to their current domiciles in part by religious persecution. Utah Mormons actively prosetylize, yes? Reaching out to their neighbors? While the Israelis use tactics out of gangland Murder Incorporated, "rubbing out" rival gang leaders with helicopter gunships, no less. They violate the agreements under which Uncle Sugar GAVE them those weapons to do so, as well as the Fourth Geneva Convention- Not the best neighbors, eh? Is it any wonder the Palestinian people wish they would go back to where they came from? And who does the occupied territory belong to, "by religious right", eh? If you are going to argue that the Jews were there first, then the Afrikaners will have to go back to the Netherlands and Australians back to sLimeyland, etc., it gets REAL messy, REAL quick. Actually, it was the sLIMEYS who gave that land to the Zionists, when it was never theirs to give, and they aint GOD, not last time I checked- so leave Him out of it."

Blah blah. Religious right way of thinking is bullsh1t. I thought that came across in my post - however what you don't seem to get is that this bs way of thinking is precisely what has animated the Arab objection to Israel right from the start. Israel is one small country trying to fight for it's survival, no matter what are the rights or wrongs of it's inception. The arabs are many surrounding nations who all want to see it destroyed. Your sympathies seem to lie exclusively with the arab cause. So far your view of the middle east situation comes across as very biased and deeply prejudiced.ISRAEL was created by the British to be the cause of perennial war in the Middle East. You are mistaken if you believe Israel to be in jeopardy of invasion since it possesses an amplitude of NUCLEAR WEAPONS and a highly competent conventional military capability. Egypt is at peace with Israel and has been for years. And you calling ME "biased" and "prejudiced"? F-ck that, man, I quote Ha'aretz WAY more often than I quote any Arab source, while my "worthy" opponents do neither. What I get from them is tired old ad hominem attacks, "...you're a dick." "...an antiSemite." And your own immortal "Blah blah." How the f-ck is this supposed to support your case? My big problem with ISRAEL is the drain on the United States Treasury and the history it has of killing people more or less at random in the name of stopping "terrorism". This policy has been spectacularly unsuccessful to date, and is little better than the suicide bombing it is supposedly intended to terminate.

I happen to favor the LaRouche Oasis Plan instead.

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/eco...l#Oasis%20plan

The problem is that the populations of both Israel and Palestine are not mobilized against their common enemies, which are poverty and the damned desert. With the intelligent application of technology, more people can live on less land and in greater comfort and security. As evidence, I cite all of human history to date. Creating armed and opposing camps along religious and ethnic lines is not the way to go about it, hence the topic of this thread.

SHALOM,T.

Originally posted by Voyager13b
When I saw this new post by Tovar, I expected to see the word "Jew" somewhere in the first paragraph. I wasn't disappointed.



Voyager

Yeh, what about it? The Jews were a despised minority in Medieval Europe and they lived in segregated communities. Did you not know this? Then they had no choice, but what is amazing to me is that they choose to do so today, on a vast scale.

Why is this? Can you explain, Voyager?

T.

[Voyager13b]

Originally posted by tovarisch

Yeh, what about it? The Jews were a despised minority in Medieval Europe and they lived in segregated communities. Did you not know this? Then they had no choice, but what is amazing to me is that they choose to do so today, on a vast scale.

Why is this? Can you explain, Voyager?

T.

WTF, Tovar? I don't get your point. If the Jews were forced into segregated communities (and despised) throught their history, it would be no surprise to see that they would choose to live in a self created friendly environment now.

That makes sense, doesn't it? I don't get how groups of otherwise intelligent sounding people could waste their oxygen by trying to prove that most problems facing humanity are the fault of a relatively small number of people bound by common faith more than by DNA. I can't think of any cases of Jews trying to overthrow a secular government for sh!ts and giggles. How many terror attacks and bombings are attributed to rouge Jews that can't seem to get along with the current form of government in their country of residence? Don't even think about pointing out the situation in the middle east, as that mess fits better under the description of survival rather than expansion.

I could understand if you were preaching against lawyers, or some other standard form of expression for human slime , but Jews as a group? I don't buy it. It seems to me that Jews have suffered from being a convenient scapegoat for explaining away the failures of non Jews during recent history.

That does not mean that I give Israel a pass every time they screw the pooch, but it it also doesn't mean that I sit at home in my free time trying to understand history through the filter of how Jews are responsible for the eruption of Mount St. Helens.

Actually, I think it is in your best interest to have a thriving Jewish community living on planet earth, as the alternative would force you to reset your entire life view and find another group to blame for that wild hair that itches your ass.

ðÏËÁ,
Voyager

Originally posted by Voyager13b

WTF, Tovar? I don't get your point. If the Jews were forced into segregated communities (and despised) throught their history, it would be no surprise to see that they would choose to live in a self created friendly environment now.Oyah, SO friendly! They are shooting the shyit out of people with helicopter gunships because they are SOOOO friendly! "Intifada", that's Arabic for "friendly", right?

That makes sense, doesn't it?No, not really. I don't get how groups of otherwise intelligent sounding people could waste their oxygen by trying to prove that most problems facing humanity are the fault of a relatively small number of people bound by common faith more than by DNA. I can't think of any cases of Jews trying to overthrow a secular government for sh!ts and giggles.USU(C)K forces just did that same thing- in Iraq. Why? How many terror attacks and bombings are attributed to rougeYou mean "rogue". Jews that can't seem to get along with the current form of government in their country of residence?There have been such incidents both in ISRAEL( http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/kkc.html ) and in the United States, by members of the Jewish Defense League. Then there are the assassinations of Yitzak Rabin(1995) and Chaim Arlozoroff(1933) by Jewish adherents of Vladimir Jabotinsky, but you get the idea, they happen, even if you do not choose to acknowledge them. Don't even think about pointing out the situation in the middle east, as that mess fits better under the description of survival rather than expansion.Oh? And what about the Golan Heights? And Israel's invasion of Lebanon? Survival? How?

I could understand if you were preaching against lawyers, or some other standard form of expression for human slime , but Jews as a group? I don't buy it. It seems to me that Jews have suffered from being a convenient scapegoat for explaining away the failures of non Jews during recent history.No, not Jews as a group, Zionists, which can be "Christian" nominally, at least. The failings of Gentiles? Granted, there are many of these, but do you honestly believe that a Jew can do no wrong, simply because he claims to be a Jew? That's sort of an antiSemitic remark, isn't it? I mean they ARE human, right?

That does not mean that I give Israel a pass every time they screw the pooch, but it it also doesn't mean that I sit at home in my free time trying to understand history through the filter of how Jews are responsible for the eruption of Mount St. Helens.Nor do I claim that, you are making as much sense as eye now.

Actually, I think it is in your best interest to have a thriving Jewish community living on planet earth, as the alternative would force you to reset your entire life view and find another group to blame for that wild hair that itches your ass.

ðÏËÁ,
VoyagerI am opposed to my tax dollars being used to achieve violence against my fellow human beings, making me an accomplice to murder, whether it is by American or Israeli troops. I am sorry you do not understand this but I think killing people is wrong and that no good comes of it.

PEACE,T.

[VicBlack]

Stoopid jackass

Originally posted by eyeradi8

Oh really, Elsie?

And how!

And Elmer?

Is it because I DARE to expose the very REAL phenomenon of Zionist terrorism, or just because I abhor violence? What is the source of your disdain and condemnation? Do tell, not that I give a cat crap, really, just curious.T.

[Shaft]

"I am attempting to determine if YOU are in fact a subscriber to this point of view, comrade Shaft- ignoring it is not etc"

I am not a social darwinist and yes I do know what social darwinism means.

"You are mistaken if you believe Israel to be in jeopardy of invasion since it possesses an amplitude of NUCLEAR WEAPONS"

I pointed out that the Arab world would like to see the destruction of Israel, not that any one Arab country was in a position to invade Israel. It was about their objectives. The terrorists method of pursuing that goal is not unilateral invasion but terrorism and chaos on the one hand and 'dialogue' on the other. Nuclear weapons are clearly no deterrent to such a strategy now, are they?

"Egypt is at peace with Israel and has been for years."

Yeah because Israel kicked their butts. Now do you begin to see the logic of Israels occasionally getting a bit stroppy with the Arabs? Regrettably, it seems to be the only thing that brings peace - a darn good spankin. Israel doesn not want to expand - expansions of territory on Israels part are not the result of reginal ambition...just a will to survive, and to have something with which to persuade their enemies to back off from time to time. If only the Arabs would accept Israels right to exist and abandon the region wide support for terrorism, the Palestinians could be given their state and there could be peace.

"And you calling ME "biased" and "prejudiced"?"

Well yes, of course I am - because you are.

"My big problem with ISRAEL is the drain on the United States Treasury and the history it has of killing people more or less at random in the name of stopping "terrorism"".

Israel has a habit of going after terrorists and sometimes killing innocent civilians in the process. It is tragic, but Israel has been forced into taking these kind of measures by terrorists who deliberately go after innocent civilians and children.

On that note - I have a question for you (straight answer please with no 'ping ponging' around) :

What is worse - accidentally killing civilians while going after terrorists, or deliberately killing civilians as part of your job as a terrorist?