Question

[Rain]

It always amazes me just how normal these soldiers look. Cut out the picture of the girl next to a pile of naked Iraqis and you have a sweet girl smiling on her prom. Is this a trick?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...buse_photos_14

What makes a human being become a sadist and enjoy inflicting psychological/physical torture on another while not understanding right/wrong? Not just kill, but take joy and pleasure out of another's suffering and pain?

Lets be clear, US army arent thugs or barbarians, they are pretty normal people, with families and friends, they like the same movies we do, they make the same jokes we do, etc, etc. To call these soldiers "beasts" would be escaping the problem. They arent beasts, they are normal by our standards. And thats the problem. The standards.

Americans are out of touch with reality, the culture of violence, constant promotion of murder and suffering in video games & hollywood and government manipulation of these associations into realworld targets ( Arabs, Muslims, Iraqis, Afghans, Terrorists, Communists, etc ) makes it morally OKAY to do such acts.

I think there is a fundamental problem with society in general today, people become so cut off from reality to an extent that they are not able anymore to make distinctions between right and wrong, or even care. Just give them a proper tag taken from Hollywood and put it on a another human being distinct by religion/ethnicity/nationality and you have a school of angels collectively smiling as they drive nails through another human being's body. We are in a Hollywood war, its our shock'n'awe, and our Freedom(tm)...and they are the Orcs, Sarumans, Aliens, that are okay to kill by thousands. We are right. They are wrong.

A bad education system that results in people who know less about the world around them, and are easily convinced to go to war. After all, how sorry can you be for people you dont know, and yesterday didnt know they existed? Take pills for your depression, go to McDonalds, watch TV and vote for politicians, be a patriot and dont be a "terrorist supporter", in other words, - be quiet, eat your food and dont ask questions.

Here, switch on some reality-tv and watch two fat mammas cursing each other on Jerry Springer, here, watch some black guy pulled over on the COPS, hold your breath for the guys at the Survivor, vote for your favourite Idol contestant but do NOT NOT EVER vote against a war that your government started and DO NOT EVER SHED A TEAR about an Iraqi being tortured or a family executed by a missile ( A GPS system, all automated and hooked to the sattellite too, no less! ).

Why generate thousands of digital actors on screen in Troy? Lets cut the bull and just watch real bombs falling on some foreign country, real masses of people being massacred instead. Saves production costs too and will sell on reality tv. Whats the difference after all? Expect REALITY-WAR on Fox in 2020, "Showdown with Uzbekistan". Cue music. Cue flag + eagle graphic. Cut to commercial. Are you with me? Its a big world, enough missiles for everyone. Besides, you can always switch to Idol if it gets boring.

So, are you with me or what?

R

p.s - has anyone seen "Das Experiment". Brilliant!

[Nathalie2004]

Originally posted by Rain
It always amazes me just how normal these soldiers look. Cut out the picture of the girl next to a pile of naked Iraqis and you have a sweet girl smiling on her prom. Is this a trick?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...buse_photos_14

What makes a human being become a sadist and enjoy inflicting psychological/physical torture on another while not understanding right/wrong? Not just kill, but take joy and pleasure out of another's suffering and pain?

Lets be clear, US army arent thugs or barbarians, they are pretty normal people, with families and friends, they like the same movies we do, they make the same jokes we do, etc, etc. To call these soldiers "beasts" would be escaping the problem. They arent beasts, they are normal by our standards. And thats the problem. The standards.

Americans are out of touch with reality, the culture of violence, constant promotion of murder and suffering in video games & hollywood and government manipulation of these associations into realworld targets ( Arabs, Muslims, Iraqis, Afghans, Terrorists, Communists, etc ) makes it morally OKAY to do such acts.

I think there is a fundamental problem with society in general today, people become so cut off from reality to an extent that they are not able anymore to make distinctions between right and wrong, or even care. Just give them a proper tag taken from Hollywood and put it on a another human being distinct by religion/ethnicity/nationality and you have a school of angels collectively smiling as they drive nails through another human being's body. We are in a Hollywood war, its our shock'n'awe, and our Freedom(tm)...and they are the Orcs, Sarumans, Aliens, that are okay to kill by thousands. We are right. They are wrong.

A bad education system that results in people who know less about the world around them, and are easily convinced to go to war. After all, how sorry can you be for people you dont know, and yesterday didnt know they existed? Take pills for your depression, go to McDonalds, watch TV and vote for politicians, be a patriot and dont be a "terrorist supporter", in other words, - be quiet, eat your food and dont ask questions.

Here, switch on some reality-tv and watch two fat mammas cursing each other on Jerry Springer, here, watch some black guy pulled over on the COPS, hold your breath for the guys at the Survivor, vote for your favourite Idol contestant but do NOT NOT EVER vote against a war that your government started and DO NOT EVER SHED A TEAR about an Iraqi being tortured or a family executed by a missile ( A GPS system, all automated and hooked to the sattellite too, no less! ).

Why generate thousands of digital actors on screen in Troy? Lets cut the bull and just watch real bombs falling on some foreign country, real masses of people being massacred instead. Saves production costs too and will sell on reality tv. Whats the difference after all? Expect REALITY-WAR on Fox in 2020, "Showdown with Uzbekistan". Cue music. Cue flag + eagle graphic. Cut to commercial. Are you with me? Its a big world, enough missiles for everyone. Besides, you can always switch to Idol if it gets boring.

So, are you with me or what?

R

p.s - has anyone seen "Das Experiment". Brilliant!

It's like everyone is "just passing through". No one is responsible or accepts their own power. America is a huge democracy; that is why it is so shocking to see these pictures. No one seems to believe in themselves; they seem to think someone else knows better or is somehow responsible....it's so chilling in a country where people have access to so much information; so many different ideas. I never imagined such mindlessness could come from democratic country built on belief in the individual.
It's so cruel.

[C-Force]

Originally posted by Nathalie2004
...to believe in themselves; they seem to think someone else knows better or is somehow responsible....never imagined such mindlessness could come from democratic country built on belief in the individual.
It's so cruel.

Granted all of the individuals involved are mindless grunts in the army. The IQ standards for the army aren't exactly the highest.

[dj_who_kid]

Did both of you fall down the stairs? Rain don't answer that.

As for you crying that " I never imagined such mindlessness could come from democratic country built on belief in the individual." well, hate to break it to you, but since people are INDIVIDUALS, they don't all act the same. Thus, the other 200,000 soldiers participating don't shame themselves, but a few hicks from West Virginia do. Maybe you should think about this a little harder Nathalie.

Now Rain, your diatribe, and that's what it is, was quite hilarious. You know, not every American is like these morons(and not every American thinks this is "ok"). But let me tell you something Chechen, the Iraqis are lucky US army has to follow "Rules of Conduct" else I would imagine that country would become part of the sand it's built on. Personally, I would wage a war of aggression, not respect "holy" sites, since this is a war and not a picnic at the park(maybe you forget the wars of Crusades or the Turkish invasions of Balkans). Don't get me wrong, humiliating prisoners, many of whom are just petty thieves, is not what a professional army should be about. Then again, how about you whinny liberals put yourselves into the shoes of the soldiers. Maybe after a few ak rounds go by you will change too.

Rain, for example, exults the killing of Russian soldiers whenever he gets the chance. Then why is this any different than not caring about the abuse? Seems like Rain has no sense of compasion either.

Now, for the funnier parts of your diatribe. Americans have a lot of pride, and with this comes a large ego. So what. I have an ego too, so when someone crashes into my car I get angry at that person for being an idiot. Now take two planes and topple the symbol of American might, in the largest city in US. What do you get? Roses? Parades? People asking, well maybe it's our fault? Hahah. NO. You get anger. Funny part is that while socialists would sit on their hands, American conservatives know what to do.

As for you crying about deaths and people being out of touch. Hello? Is anyone home? This is a war, not a dance Rain. Soldiers in Iraq aren't there to build bridges. Killing happens, especially with a lot of ak-47s and m-16s around. What should people expect? That no one will be hurt? That all children and women are safe? Naive. This coming from you Rain is even more hysterical. A Chechen who supports actions such as the bombing of Kadyrov suddenly talking about violence and society! HYPOCRIT!

A bad education system? Have you ever been to the US? I bet you haven't else you would know all public schools are liberal breeding grounds. Buzzzzzzzzz...wrong again.

I'm with you Rain, but I don't think you're with yourself. Catch my drift?

[Booger]

To suggest that Americans feel anything other than OUTRAGE because of these incidents is beyond rediculous. I garrantee that the bags of sh-t responsible for the abuse these prisoners endured will be held accountable.

And don't give me any of that crap about 'movies' and 'video games' desensitising people as to the horrors of war. The most deadly war in the history of humanity was fought when movies were 'fluffy' and video games were nonexistent.

[Rain]

You see, Booger, these soldiers arent "pieces of sh!t". Its easy to isolate the problem, call the bunch of folks beasts and be done with it. But its not an isolated case, its happening in Guantanamo and Afghanistan as well. Question isnt whether they will be court-marshalled, its why did what they did in the first place. What would push a normal person to such cruelty?

They aint mentally ill, aint criminals, aint fundamentalists, these are ordinary boys and gals having fun.

The problem is bigger, its the atmosphere that America has been since 9/11. ( As long as I remember Iraqis have nothing to do with it. ) Its hard to believe a bunch of conservatives can hijack a country like that. Nothing is certain, just a holy war against the ambiguous "terrorism", no plans, no proof, no rules. Nothing's done according to the rules now, Geneva conventions out of the door, UN out of the door, whats next? I was here on this forum saying I was for removal of Saddam, for this war, check the archive. I have a general and honest desire to see Islamic taken back from jihadists/Saudis/Saddams and West/East relations normalized, but today they have more sympathizers than they EVER had, understand? You can always pull out, but they'll have to deal with that crap. Another Afghanistan?

We already had a beautiful system of law, tolerance and belief twisted beyond recognition by a bunch of rich fanatics, - Islam. Dont let the same happen to another beautiful system we know today.

As for the media, I am referring to the way it has hijacked pop-culture for its political interests. The appalling thing was that noone noticed.

R

p.s - dj/kid - I have a general desire to debate with you, but only if you curb your emotions. Its cheap to try to offend your debater, if you really have something to say. I didnt read past your first line.

[Marcelle]

I could not have said it better, minus the stairs part..but agree with what you state.

Originally posted by Rain


As for the media, I am referring to the way it has hijacked pop-culture for its political interests. The appalling thing was that noone noticed.

R

R,
Could you elaborate more on this point. Not sure if I am just tired, or just not getting what you say.