Judism/Jews - a Russian perspective

[Nonson]

??? Topic: Russian views toward Jews(in a broad general sense). Inclusions: Jewish culture; religion; the people group; and Jews in Russia. Targets: anything not related to topical matter. ??? Point of View: Zionism is relevant to any and all possible geopolitical discussion/debate. Range of the M-R Unit? Alpha to omaga? Peace

[Dr_Woland]

sorry, I disagree - above comments refer to "Zionists in Israel", and "Zionists in America".

Those may be interesting topics, but they are not related - except obliquely - to the question raised by the original poster. They tend - as so many posts on this board - towards diving-off into a discussion about America, and not discussing the Russian aspect at all. I would also say that the post which drew these topics into the debate was aimed at scuppering further discussion of any positive view of jews in Russia, in favour of condemnation of a tiny majority of other jews who DON'T live in Russia. In other words, to sabotage the discussion with a flame-laden digression.

Dr W.

Greetings Dr. Woland,
I regret that you want to limit the discussion to Russian Jews and such. This is a subject that goes way beyond Russia. It has an international scope to it. It involves the Russian Jewish community on Long Island and the Russian Jewish community in Israel etc, etc. Have you heard of the Jewish Lobby? The question I raised, had to do with the connection, cooperation,
collusion amongst the Jews worldwide. What is the foundation for this? Is it based on Religion, is it based on Nationalistic Fervor or is it Racism? Which one do you prefer? I hope that you see the relevancy of the question.
Good Luck.

[Dr_Woland]

Good evening, Mr Ungaro!

Well, you have a point, although not a great one. I don't think the original poster was particularly motivated towards knowing what people other than Russians (so far I think the original poster is the only Russian in the debate?) think about emigrant jews living on Long Island and their relationship with, errr, Zionism?

In fact, why is it that when you personally examined the question "deeper", you found it be based upon... Zionism???

Considering the waves of anti-semitism which are rocking Russia at the moment, and causing jewish people to really fear for their lives.... considering the arrests of prominent jews (Gusinsky) which the new regime has begun... considering the failure of the St Petersburg militia to investigate anti-semitic killings...

Consider too, how very many prominent jews hid their identity in order to avoid discrimination (can you tell me which recent Prime Minister was jewish? Try to guess?)....

Have a look who owns the real wealth in Russia today...

There really are a lot of topics about judaism and Russia. Talking about USA funding of Zionism, is a long way from what the original poster asked, I feel?

Dr W.
(a pro-Palestinian atheist, born from a semitic line...)

[Nonson]

My heart lies deep in the little camp of Orthodox Jews who are abiding their time, and remaining faithful to that which G-d proclaimed. It is these people, and other less fortunate ones(Holocaust victims)which the Zionists so ruthlessly betrayed and caused the death of in the Nazi death machine. These same Zionists have done untold and irremeable damage to the relationships between the Arab world and the Jewish people. I sincerely hope that the Russian Jew is not so blind as not to see this. We, as spectators, can do little to end the 'waves of anti-Jewish' currently afoot in Russia. I can't believe that it is a good thing, but not knowing the real source of the cause there is nothing to be offered that has any merit. In the past fifty years, the Zionists have done nothing to enhance the image of the world-wide Jewish community. Indeed, they have cast a very dark cloud over the entire people. Believing as I do in 'realpolitik' I don't condemn the Zionists for 'grabbing power' which is a natural human disposition, but I do condemn them for excluding and demeaning a greater portion of their own people. If you are truely a pro-Palestinian then you certainly understand all of the preceeding beliefs. I have no interest in any flame-laden offerings on this subject, and will not respond to such unless they are directed at me. However, realize that I live in a world of geopolitics and the interplay of real politics are of great concern. Therefore, I reserve the right to speak up at any time when there are shifts in the forces that interest me. Peace.

[Dr_Woland]

I rarely, if ever, come to the Religion section - having no belief, it would be hypocritical to do so. However, there was a question raised about the social issue of the interaction of jews with non-jews amongst the Russian population.

However, this has been hijacked by one guy prepared to label all jews Zionists, and another one who believes him.

There is a Russian proverb, which says that it's a foolish dog who tries to come between two others... so I shall bid you gentleman adieu, and I am sure your discussion of Zionism in America and Israel, unrelated though it may be to this board or the original question, will give you much joy.

It's a pity that when people know nothing about a subject, they feel obliged to contribute what they know about a different topic instead.

Dr W.

[Dr_Woland]

>> between the Russian and Jewish peoples <<

What ARE you talking about?? Try saying "between the American and Catholic peoples", or "between the Indian and Hindu peoples", and if you find those incongruous, then your extraordinary zeugma above is no less so.

Do you actually know any Russian Jews? Or do you believe they can be told apart - the jews being the ones with the horns?

Are you going to tell my friend Lena she's not a Russian, BECAUSE she's a jew?? What about the pianist Ashkenazy - Jew, or Russian? Which shall we dub him?

I'm sorry, Nonson, but I find your ill-informed remarks flatly offensive, and followed-up with your extraordinary panegyric on Zionism, doubly so.

Dr W.