COMPASSION

[Lorisa]

I'm sorry, I didn't proof-read what I posted before I posted it. I just wanted to clarify that when I say "homosexuality is a sin" I do not mean that those who are genetically inclined to being homosexual are sinners, but rather that the action itself is a sin, regardless of who does it.

Greetings Lorisa,
The question that I have for you is this: Should we judge people by their ability abide by the law or abide by religious teachings? All females have been burdened by
the archaic attitudes towards them and towards sex by religious institutions. It is still going on today. Just try to be a Preacherette in the baptist church. Hello.
These attitudes devide us, they designate others as substandard, they create dislike
for others, they result in violence and terrorism. All this, while we are working
towards Bliss? No thank you.
Good Luck
One more thing: "All wives should gracefully
submit to the authority of their HUSBAND."
This too comes from the Christians, although
it could have come from say Iran or Lybia or
Iraq. What say you?

[This message has been edited by B.Ungaro (edited 05 July 2000).]

[Lorisa]

B- We should not judge people's morality at all. That is not our call or our place. As far as a legal system and judging, yes, we have laws, so in a different sense, we need to "judge" people according to whether or not they have broken those laws, because the punishment for those laws is administered by men. Of course we use the laws of men to judge men under a system of justice designed by men! And as far as religious right and wrong, we are not Judge, so who are we to judge? We are, so to speak, the ones on the stand.

How interesting, I was just replying to another male friend of mine via e-mail. He posed the same type of question for me, and even mentioned the Baptist church as well!
I disagree with your thoughts on male and female, "These attitudes divide us, they designate others as substandard, they create dislike for others..." Nothing I've read in the Bible indicates that women are substandard to men, or that men should dislike women. (or vica versa) On the contrary, I think the oppisite is true. The Bible shows women and men are equal and husbands should love their wives.

Do you think that by saying "wives, submit to your husbands" the Bible is saying "wives, you are lower than your husbands?" That can't be. The Bible also says that God made male and female in his own image, and they are equal in his sight. So, let's look at it in a different way. Rather than telling us who is greater, God is telling us how to show love. Even the act of sex is, in it's purest form, more than just the act itself. (I could go into a long tangent on this one, I'll spare you.) If you read on, the Bible also shows how men should love their wives, and it is made very clear that men are not to treat women as slaves or sex objects, etc.

Oh, but the Bible clearly states that women are DIFFERENT from men, right? Do you have a problem with that? As a husband and father you should know that we are. Period. We are more emotionally driven than most men. Some of us less than others, but for the most part we are.

This is NOT a bad thing. It's good, if we are to be mothers and care givers, you need the emotional as well as the rational. Even if you are not to be either (as right now I am niether) the emotional still is needed in society. (that almost got me started on another tangent, excuse me.)

Yes, I am a woman, and I'm proud of that, and I don't want to just raise children or clean the house while my husbands at work. I'm adventurous, and quite stubborn. That's why I need the instruction presented to me in the Bible concerning male and female relations. I believe all that I've read in the Bible concerning how I should treat my husband. If he treats me as the Bible instructs him, and I do the same, our household flows smoothly. Love is, and I'm sure you'd agree, a give-and-take situation. You don't always get what you want, but love is, by definition a compromise. "not self-centered." 1 Cor. 13... By submitting to my husband, I am showing respect and love. I am giving myself, my own desires, up for him.

Don't worry about the church spreading sexism. I find it actually quite ironic, considering that Christianity, on it's outset, was a "females" religion because it, rather than inslaving them, liberated them. During it's first century, most of the followers were females.

This has not been an excellent composition, I'm aware, but I hope that it starts to give you an idea of what another view can be. I look forward to discussing this further with you.

(and please, others, if you can jump in with verses and references to give a bible-based perspective, please do!)

-Lorisa

Greetings Lorisa,
Yes, I see it different. You can not explain away the Baptist not offering to females the
pulpit. You can not explain away the defeat of the Equal Rights Amandment to the Constitution. Frankly, I feel offended when
any group tells my wife and my daughter that they should gracefully submit to the authority of their husband. I am not sure which is more offensive the gracefully or the submit. It took a long time for me to
understand that my wife and I are equal partners. I am grateful that my wife had the strength to forgive some of my indiscretions.
Looking back, my indiscretions were the result of attitudes similar to what the heavy duty Christians still have today. They have a superiority complex which will lead to disaster. I hope that you have been following the saga of the Santa Fe School District. It is a perfect case study about bigotry. Bigotry has many channels. It can be directed against females, it can be directed against different faiths, it can be directed against people who are different, like homosexuals. It seems to me that the Evengelical Christians are experts at all of these.
You did not say if you thought that they should be allowed to impose religious laws over secular laws? You can tolerate their ways if you like. More and more people will not.
Good Luck

[Straighterway]

Dear Lorisa,

could u please throw me some quotes here or over e-mail [windyway@att.net] about how the Bible implies the male/female equality. see, i prefer adjusting myself to the Bible, rather then adjusting the Bible to myself when i see some things there that are hard to swallow.

Dear Bill,

--You can not explain away--
what's that? u make it sound like we need to explain something away. like if Christians need to think up excuses for their beliefs. God did not leave us something to excuse, otherwise He wouldn't be the perfect God and it would make Him a liar. so please don't use misplaced terminology to put ur opponents on the defensive.

Greetings Evelyn,
You are something. Things you don't like you just ignore. I try to answer all of your questions, you just act like you lived in some kind of make-believe world. Yes, explain away. Some think that that there is no bigotry in Chritianity, it's the way bible explains it. Listen, I wish you would say something about the Baylor University
matter and also the Santa Fe thing. If you want to take shots at me, you better get in gear because I am going on vacation for six weeks. I will be leaving around the 15th and be back on around the end of August. You probably will be able to get a couple of converts while I am gone. Take your best shot. The Superstition Police will be back
sooner than you think.
Before I go, I would like for you to try to explain away those things that you have been
ignoring.
Good Luck.

[Straighterway]

Dear mr. Ungaro,

u r not right. see, i was telling u how i did not have enough time and that my post was gonna be continued. i just try to answer ur accusations in the order recieved. Santa Fe was one of the last ones.

i know how annoying it is when people just walk away from answering what they can't answer, i had this experience myself, so don't worry about me doing the same.

--If you want to take shots at me--
i said i wasn't big on wars. however, if u wanna make this into a war i will practice my satyagara.

let me now make a polite request to stop refering to everything i say as 'explaining away'. it's a plain disrespect to my words and it's against the rules of a civilzed debate.

Superstition police-... officer, u r forgetting ur codex: u keep wishing me good luck all the time and i really don't believe in luck, or black cats, or the #13 or any of this kind of nonsence.

have a nice vacation and don't let the bad bugs bite.
luv, Ev.