how to distinguish religious from others

Greetings Evelyn,
What about Santa Fe? When speaking of contradictions, I was speaking of the bible being in contrast with science and history.
I will give you detailed facts on any subject of your choice. It is a good idea to have respect for your opponent, on this we agree. I try to be general and not personal.
Still, facts are facts. Most Fanatical Christians are running away from their past.
Instead of making things right with those whom they have wronged, they seek refuge in the make-believe world. They pray like hell
to go to heaven. You speak of having had a bout with depression. I sincerely hope that you are under a doctors care. Praying might give you comfort, it is medicine that cures
or corrects any illness. Now regarding the birth place and the date of birth of Jesus.
There are two theories on the place of birth and three dates on the date of birth. The bible is a collection of writings of people of the particular time. "Gods Word" it's not.
If it was, we would have to conclude that God was poorly informed about a lot of things.
Good Luck

[This message has been edited by B.Ungaro (edited 05 July 2000).]

[Nonson]

To Whom it may concern:...................... contrary to stated objection as to method and principle of viewing one's enemies, the proper and humane manner of 'lifting the burden' of evil entrapment is to first make that brethern fully aware of its total weight. Once s/he perceive the true nature of false deliberations the 'load' is quickly dumped and the now wiser seeker sees a more Benign and an infinitely more Harmonious Face of Reality. Peace

To whom it may conern,
Ever since your first posting, I have admired the way you have with words. In my debate with Evelyn and others regarding Christianity, I have tried not to get personal. I used to get very hostile. I was the author of the term "Jesus-Nazi", which I no longer use. Through a dear friend, who is a big time Fundamentalist Evengelical Christian dignitary, I have found tolerance.
When I speak out, I do it because I am sincerely concerned for them, for my family
and for our country. I am convinced that dependence of any kind and Zealoted Fanatic
pursuit of any ideals can only lead to trouble. I offer Santa Fe as an example.
Thank you for your comments.
Good Luck.

[Straighterway]

i do not think insults can help in any way, because:

1)they sting a person's pride and he/she tries to get back at u for it instead of listenning to ur arguments.

2)insulting someone gives them the right to insult u.

mr. Ungaro, i apreciate ur concern with my medical condition and i forgive ur sarcasm.

luv.

Greetings Evelyn,
No sarcasm intended, only pure 100% Texas style concern. I would also like to mention
that most roads are "two way" traffic. Are you still looking for the conflict about the birthplace of Jesus? Your quotes from the bible were nice, but they missed their target. As always, I am ready to help. All you have to do is say: Pleeeeease. How are you doing with your response regarding Santa
Fe? Do you see the irony?
Take care,
Bill

[Straighterway]

--only pure 100% Texas style concern--
yeah, don't u sound innocent?...how cute!!!

ok, let's take it slow from the start, mr Crusader against Christianity. i see u really believe u r doing the right thing. how sad.

*bithplace of Jesus. both Luke and Matthew refer to Bethlehem as His birthplace as my quotes clearly show. yet He is sometimes refered to as Jesus of Nazareth. true, this form is traditionaly used to indicate the birthplace. the explanation, however, is simple. Jesus being born in Bethlehem was like 'an accident' (i guess i could say it that way). to His earthly parents of course not to God, God had it all predicted and it was Bethlehem for a reason. let's go on about the 'accident' though.

--and it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered-- [Luke 2:1] so that's the big mystery! the little Christmass TV shows, remember? that's why they left their house and went to another city where they did not have anything. so He happened to be born there and was put in a manger.

but Nazareth is where Mary was coming from and where He spent His childhood, so that's why He is called Jesus of Nazareth. He couldn't be called Jesus of Bethlehem because Bethlehem wasn't His home, His family had no house and apparently no living relatives there. so, how can He be called -of Bethlehem?

if u still think calling Him Jesus of Nazareth could refer exclusively to the place of His birth, then, excuse me, do u really think Luke could be that stupid? clearly saying that He was born in Bethlehem at the beginning of the Gospel, and then calling Him Jesus of Nazareth?

can-i-get-any-more-detailed? i hope that helps u see it at last. isn't there a way of recognizing facts when u r put face to face with them in Texas? c'mon. no lie.

*the birth date of Jesus. three different versions, guesses made by men. of course the Father knew. Just because they have some debates about the Bible, does it mean the Bible is not true? show me how the Gospels contradict each other on the date.

moving on.

*how did Joseph feel when he found out the Child was not his? HONORED. happy beyond belief. to have the Son of God Almighty born into his family, to have a chance to raise him and to be called His earthly adopted father? it's not like Mary cheated on him or anything. the Child was sent into Joseph's family.

moving on.

*now this is a sore point. i am thinking about starting a new thread on it. u brought up the other Houston Chronicle story, about evolution at school.

first of all i gotta say i heard u make an interesting statement-that we, in the religion section are spreading propaganda. propaganda indeed, shameless propaganda, big lies is what i wanna talk about...cooling off....
i have also heard u defending the idea of religious tolerance.

atheism is not a religion. but it is a point of view on religion, and atheists can be as determined in their vision of things as the religious people. (why would i be thinking that, lol...?) secular state does not = atheistic state, otherwise it would be as much of a 'repression of religious freedom' as creating a totalitarian Christian state.
will u disagree? if u really believe the state should be neutral in the concept of religion, then state-supported atheism is a violation as well.

now evolution
evolution, especially Darwinian evolution is NOT proven, it's is argued about and REJECTED by many sophisticated scientists and presents big gaps in evidence. they were trying to make men out of apes and apes out of men and sometimes they used outright FRAUD and LIES, making FAKE skeletons and concealing data that proves them FAKE.

it is the atheistic point of view. then why should it be prefered upon other religions? because it is not Christian? how does one form of "discrimination" differ from the other?

ok, ok, initially i wasn't so much against teaching evolution at school, since i was coming from a state that had an anti-religious tradition left over after communism. but they present one-sided info, and half-truths, as facts under a very little shadow of doubt.

--indoctrinate the weak minded-- sounds familiar? those kids who are just going into life, who have choices to make for themselves, have some half-truths forced unto them with multiple pieces of questionable evidence that is presented as real evidence, and they believe it!!! because they r used to the fact they are coming to school to learn.
and so kids come back home to their parents who have tried their best to raise them in the faith and now their faith is broken.
and they grow up with this mentality.

talk about propaganda forced on the weak minded!!! the biology department...yeah right. no lie.

--Through a dear friend, who is a big time
Fundamentalist Evengelical Christian dignitary, I have found tolerance.--



did i dream of that? u actually LEARNED something from a Christian. i thought Christianity never worked for anybody in any way, according to u...

to be continued


[This message has been edited by Straighterway (edited 05 July 2000).]

Greetings Evelyn,
I hope that you have had a chance to calm down by now. Your last posting covers a lot of points, I will read it a few times before
answering it. I am able to answer the part relating to the birtplace of Jesus. I have told you and others that I am concerned for
the Christians. My concern comes from the fact that in order for your faith to stand the test of time two things must turn out to
be facts: 1. The bible is the word of God.
2. Jesus is the son of God, and God is the creator. To some like myself, these points have been proven wrong already by science and history. To people like you, the evidence is insufficient and even questionable. If the Christians practiced their faith in their hearth, in their home and in their church, it would not present any threat. Unfortunately, as is proven by the Santa Fe situation they want to impose
their faith on others. Now, back to the birthplace and back to the bible. Let us forget about the Flat Earth theory and the Geocentric Universe Theory. On both of these
issues the bible is clearly wrong. Forget for a minute that the most important part of the bible on creation, Genesis I and II are being re-translated. Let us just talk about
the birthplace. In my original posting on this subject I told you that there was a conflict between Luke and Mathew. Let me tell you what it is.
First Luke: According to Luke, Joseph and Mary were from Nazareth but had to travel to Bethlehem to be counted in a census ordered by Ceaser Augustus. Jesus was born in a manger in Bethlehem during this trip. This seems all good and well. Now the plot thickens. History from this time is not complete, however historians and scholars have gone on record to say that there is no record of such census. Further, in the first
century, the Jewish naming convention was to call a man either according to his fathers name or according to the town in which he was born. Jesus was known as Jesus of Nazareth. Using this method he was born in NAZARETH. There is more.
What does Mathew have to say about this? This is where the conflict comes about. According to Mathew, Joseph and Mary are actually natives of Bethlehem and Jesus is born at home. Here too the plot thickens. It is further said that the family flees to Egypt and then to Nazareth to escape a slaughter of baby boys in Bethelehem ordered by the Jewish King Herod. It is consistent with history that the family could have made this journey.
Side Note: If Jesus was born in Nazareth, it is possible that early Christian writers changed his birthplace to Bethlehem because they wanted to make it appear that Jesus fulfilled an Old Testament prophecy that the Messiah would come from Bethlehem. In other words the SCAM started with his birthplace and it has been going on ever since.
I will admit that none of this would seem
like a LOCK for arguing the case one way or the other. However, if you put with this the fact that the Christians hold the bible as Gods Word, it makes you think. How can there be confusion and conflict about the bithplace
and or the residence of the SON OF GOD? How can the bible be Gods Word with these conflicts? Well, the reason for this is, that the bible is not Gods Word. It is a collection of writings by people of those times. They bible has historical and educational and entertainment value but that is as all. You should live your life in a real world. You should have relationships with real people. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for crises of major magnitude. Above all, please leave others alone with your make-believe world.
Good Luck,