islam and democracy...the impossible union.

[Rain]

Originally posted by aymanfawzy1970
hi rain...you gave now the kind of your islam..yes it seems that you are a european muslim because this was the startegy of the first arabian and turkish muslims in europe to attract the others ..they always make a hidden wall between the european muslims and the sharia wich is in fact the heart of any religion...i ask you....... does anyone tell you befor that when the muslim decide to change his religion then he deserve to KILL in according to quran and if you don't follow this rule in your country and i think it should be a european one so you are following a special islam not the islam on his naked trouth yes dear to kill this man!! and this is what they are trying to do with me now in egypt ..

Well, yes, you're correct actually. Im from Chechnya, and we have converted to Islam only about 3-4 centuries ago, being Christians prior to that. We converted to Islam voluntarily, through emissaries, and prior to that our contact with Islam was not very peaceful, - we succesfully held off and defeated Arab armies that tried to invade Caucasus region.

We are Sufi Muslims. No, no one in Chechnya believes that one should be killed for converting to another religion. I know this is what Wahhabis and Saudis promote. Also, they consider Sufi Muslims, us, heretics and always try to "enlighten" us. Most Chechens did not like that, we had to fight them actually. After defeating Russia, we had to start fighting the Wahhabi Arabs who wanted to impose their fundamentalist views on us. Of course this doesnt make us any less Muslim. We read Quran, we pray, but Sharia and Sunna are foreign concepts to us, and we live by our own rules. I agree that Saudis and Wahhabis are practicing violent Islam, but myself, like all Chechens, believe that Quran is the word of God. Wahhabis try to twist it to fit their views of sharia, etc.


what do you know about the 3 choices ? the early islamic wars aginst the other countries arround them they used to give the people of these countries only 3 choices the first is to be a muslims orto be die and the last one is to pay money and slaves ...this is not one of the islamic creatins or a wahhabian one this is the order of the muslims god and you can read it clear in a part in quran i think it is the 9th part of quran and this part calls ((al-toubah)) in arabic ..read this part carefully...and about the situation from a muslim doesn't pray mohammed the prophit of the muslims siad we should give hime achance for only 3 days and if he still refuse to pray we have to kill him with the sward..look mr.rain if someone told us befor that islam is just a romantic way to make a good relationship with god be sure you are living in a great illusion because when you believe in any religion you have to read its holly book and read every word the prophit of this religion said and then if you really believe in this religion no doubt you will follow every word..no..every letter on these books .

You are quite wrong, my friend. It is Wahhabis/Saudis/Shiites and generally people to blame for cruelty, and it is not Quran. Everything depends on interpretation. Quran does not call upon violence, it can even be read from feminist perspective. It forbids forcing religion on someone.

but itseems that you are are european muslim and this kind of islam is a cocktail from the islamic culture and the european one and it seems that ypou are living in western europe if wasn't wrong because inthere you cann't even talk about sharia because they all there know what is the islamic sharia means because islam have built on three words ...the sharia even the quran itself and all of the islamic history show us the meaning of these words wich are ... BLOOD / SEX / MONEY.

I think you are being unfair and over-generalizing. I dislike Wahhabi myself, but Quran to me is a book of equality, tolerance, and most importantly spriritual PEACE.


READ THE QURAN CAREFULLY READ THE ISLAMIC HISTORY AND READ THE STORY OF MOHAMED WITH HIS WIFES AND THIS WILL SHOW YOU THE BIG RULE OF THESE WORD IN ISLAM .

You mean sunna? The invented history of Muhammad by Arabs to justify their barbaric traditions? Only Quran is my source of religion.

but first i recommend you to read this sourah wich calls ((al-toubah)) to know more about this religion.
and i recommend you to read about the story of quran because every digit in quran has an interestiong story about mohammed and his war aginst the people arround him and aginst marriage this holy relationship
god bless you myfriend.
***************************************
"You SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE." john 8:32

You can bring the verses here any time, I wont mind taking a look. Plz provide index numbers for chapters/verses, okay?

thanks,

Rain

[aymanfawzy1970]

hi mr. rain...thank you for your poat reply.
and please send all of my best wishes to your people this is the kind of islam we hope to find all over the world..believe me my friend i appreciate your faith now even if it wasn't matshing mine but let me say something to you...the reall islam is completly defferent from your islam in so many things but i will tell you something i hope if my brothers in russia didn't be angry from me about it but it's just something i supose not a something i hope offcourse...but believe me my friend rain if your country had the chance to be a completly idependent country you will see defferent nation than you see now .
believe me rain when you go to make the quran is the first saurce for your laws this will be the day will never forget about islam because it seems that you don't want to follow sharia but the sharia is the real saurce for all of the terrorism in the world now for this reason pray for god rain and thank him because you don't use the quran's sharia.
and about the friend who blame the christians that they only love the christians and jewish you are wrong my friend because my god asked me to love even our enemy but not tell the limit we give them our souls and bodies for kill..believe me friend i love all of the people of this world but i love my brothers more and this is my right .
god bless you all.

[Rain]

At his point, I ask you to stop denouncing my religion. Stop it. I am tired of your tirades, of you calling my belief "non-real" Islam, and "real" Islam being evil and violent.

I understand that you do not come with peace, not are you interested in friendship. I doubt you understand who Jesus was and what his message was about. You come with hate and as patient as I have been with you, I realize that you will not be content until you have poured all the dirt you know on Islam.

Take your "mr.nice guy" mask off, please, its not nice to speak poison and smile to people.

I ask you for the last time, to stop blackmailing my religion. You talk more anti-Islamic subjects than you talk Christian subjects. Whats your purpose on this board?

To hate, thats what. I dont buy any of your rubbish, so promote it elsewhere please.

Rain

[Armelius]

rain, I think you are dealing with 14 year old mentalities.

[JosephInternetionale]

And what happens when 14 year old mentalities like that grow up to be full grown???

[Rain]

[Edited by Rain on 22nd June 2004 at 13:38]

[JosephInternetionale]

Pretty good response RAIN, and how do you propose the world clean up after the decisions already made??