The failure of Christianity,

[CastleStormer]

Originally posted by rikbe
Castle??? Still here? Thought you were in heaven.

You should come to Europe and see by yourself. The last church in my neighbourhood has been sold and now they are transforming it in I don't know what. It is even more ugly than before. Most churches here are falling to dust and in the remaining you see more tourists than believers.

C'mon Rikbe! So far this year I have spent time in both Stuttgart and Zurich. Christianity is as strong as it ever was in Europe. It seems like the true believers are not hanging around the big, grotesquely ornate palaces that call themselves churches. They are assembling in some of the most modest, yet spiritually on fire buildings in Europe. Sorry to disappoint those who are waiting for the demise of Jesus' kingdom. We are growing in numbers and strength every day.

[ANDY-J1]

That's funny.My brother is a commited born again Christian and a pastor at his church yet he is very open and honest about the fact that it is increasingly becoming a real struggle to try and encourage people to adopt the Christian faith.Why not be open and honest Castle Stormer and tell us your real opinion rather than the propaganda that you would like to believe were true.

[_DigitaLVampirE_]

...That 'Protestant America' is blinding to the fact 'such grotesquely ornate palaces' have been attracting more reverts than ever before. It's like playing a game of 'Risk'.
You conquer one continent, you lose the other.

But of course, people with a modernist view would disagree.
Afterall, what would you expect from such narrow-minded people?

[Traper]

Originally posted by ANDY-J1
Why not be open and honest tell us your real opinion rather than the propaganda

I don't know what you mean by "propaganda" and why do you suggest that sb's declaration of faith is not honest.
Especially if your brother is a pastor...
Or maybe, you mean beeing open to other points of view...

[Hopeful2]

Originally posted by ANDY-J1
That's funny.My brother is a commited born again Christian and a pastor at his church yet he is very open and honest about the fact that it is increasingly becoming a real struggle to try and encourage people to adopt the Christian faith.Why not be open and honest Castle Stormer and tell us your real opinion rather than the propaganda that you would like to believe were true.

In all actuality Andy, this really isn't very funny. It only speaks volumes of the spiritual condition of our world at this particular time. Good morals, personal integrity and character are on the decline at an alarmingly rapid pace. Furthermore, any argument presented that the Christian faith is not, at the very least, a positive influence in such a world would be rendered unmerited in no time flat.

Regarding your brother, I would have to agree with his sentiment and would express the same concern. But please understand it is not in an effort to convert folks over to Jesus Christ just for the sake of winning some silly numbers game or some other similar whacked out reason. My concern for people refusing to even listen to the evidence for Christ and eternal salvation available through Him is saddening simply because of the vast numbers of people who will not spend eternity in Heaven. But the efforts of any human to lead someone to Jesus are exceedingly limited, as all any Christian can do is tell others of God’s love and His promises, then the rest is up to the Holy Spirit to convict and convince. And yes it is an unfortunate fact that there will be many so called "Christians" (similar to the ones who attend church simply because of the ornate palaces and such, and other various reasons) who will also not be spending eternity in heaven. Jesus made mention of them in the book of Matthew when speaking of the wheat and the tares.

Based on what you have posted here, I assume you do not believe in God and/or that Jesus Christ of Nazareth actually lived and is in fact who He said He was. If this is the case, I can sure understand your position, as I for many years believed the same and refused to even entertain the idea of such until one day a Christian pointed out to me the fact that if in the end, I were right and they were wrong, well, I would have nothing to gain and they stood to lose nothing at all, but if I was wrong and they were right, I would have everything to lose and they everything to gain. So I began an open-minded search for the truth, and with a true open mind I researched many sources for the truth and eventually came to the conclusion that I could not any longer dismiss the overwhelming evidence.

You see God does not want us to simply come to Him in blind leap of faith. The fact is God created each and every one of us with a mind and we were created in His image. That image is not only represented within our spirit, but also represented within our body, within our thoughts, within our emotions within each and every one of us. And this image is to be used when seeking God. He wants us to check Him out and verify His truths. If this were not so He would not have told Moses at the burning bush various ways to prove to the Israelites that God did in fact send Moses to lead His people out from Egypt. God expected the Israelites to ask the intelligent question "How do we know that God sent you". Or in the book of Isaiah (40-48), God challenges the Israelites to examine every other God and then challenges these Gods to do what He does. And when Christ died, He stuck around for forty days in order to show Himself to others and prove to them what had taken place so as they would believe. God wants us to test and check out all the signs and all the evidence. Our Christian faith is faith that is real and is rational. And it is a faith that can be believed in, trusted in, and can be tested.


[Edited by Hopeful2 on 28th June 2005 at 05:08]

[CastleStormer]

Originally posted by ANDY-J1
That's funny.My brother is a commited born again Christian and a pastor at his church yet he is very open and honest about the fact that it is increasingly becoming a real struggle to try and encourage people to adopt the Christian faith.Why not be open and honest Castle Stormer and tell us your real opinion rather than the propaganda that you would like to believe were true.

Dude, how can you not know my real opinion? I believe that I already stated it in this thread. Christianity is thriving! Period! I feel bad for your brother. I wonder why his church is struggling? The good thing about certain struggles is that our faith gets tested...and that pleases God.

All I can tell you is my own personal testimony. The times where I entertained sin in my life, lived according to "self", or just felt spiritually rebellious...I too struggled spiritually. The times I disciplined myself to do the basics (prayer, worship, bible study, etc), stayed close to the Lord, and lived in obedience...it amazed me how much I could be used to serve Him.

God loves both you and your brother Andy! Encourage him to be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. If he has half the strength we see in your writings Andy, he'll be just fine.

[Gregz]

Mamie

"You can't fault Christianity as it was meant to be for human foibles."

Scandinavian is a contentious little prick who is extremely fond of making completely unqualified statements.

Christians are under know obligation to make converts of heathens.

Gregz


"A brave man is clear in his discourse, and keeps close to truth." - Aristotle