In Defence of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[mastodon]

i was just asking. and, if it presented itself to me in such a way that i was convinced it was the only, and absolute truth - yes, i would convert to christianity. i find it troubling that you don't even consider other religions. how can you know what life is all about until you have lived it? how can you make such an incredible decision without knowing all the things you will have the opportunity to know? you are fervent in what you believe, and i suppose that is a good thing - to a point. i have missed maybe 5 sundays of church in my 19 years of life. my family is devoutly christian. i am not. i understand where you are coming from. i do not understand how you cannot consider that your philosophy concerning life may not be right. to me, it seems arrogant to assume a final stance on the "meaning of life." so i guess it is here we must agree to disagree. you won't convert me with your endless, mindless drivel, and i won't deprogram you with mine. i haven't appreciated the standoffishness [ ], but it is what i have come to expect when you confront people about their religion and spirituality.

i hope you find what you are looking for.

[TheMinister]

mastodon - "if it presented itself to me in such a way that i was convinced it was the only, and absolute truth - yes, i would convert to christianity"

TheMinister- What proof do you require? If God incarnate, born of a virgin, who suffered, died, and rose from the dead is not enough, nothing will ever convince you. I have considered other religions. I was raised Catholic. I studied new age teachings and followed the power of the subconscious mind nonsense for a time. I studied Isamic tenents, Mormanism, and perhaps a few others barren paths on the way to truth. I have to go where the evidence is. I have to walk after the Holy Spirit who called me out of darkness and into light. You criticize me and Biblical Christianity because you understand neither. Christ called me, I did not call Him. Christ chose me, I did not choose Him. God elected me and predestined me unto eternal life, I could not do this. True Biblical Christianity is a relationship with God that the world can not comprehend, sad commentary for you mastodon. I know Christ closer than one could know his own brother, convincing someone of this truth is possible, but only if they are willing; from your previous posts, you are unlikely to care much about fellowshipping with thhe risen Lord.

mastodon - "i find it troubling that you don't even consider other religions. how can you know what life is all about until you have lived it? how can you make such an incredible decision without knowing all the things you will have the opportunity to know? you are fervent in what you believe, and i suppose that is a good thing - to a point"

TheMinister - What?

mastodon - I don't consider other religions now, i do not understand how you cannot consider that your philosophy concerning life may not be right. to me, it seems arrogant to assume a final stance on the "meaning of life." you won't convert me with your endless, mindless drivel, and i won't deprogram you with mine.

TheMinister - This is the height of arrogance. According to you, my view is endlees, mindless drival, which you have not proven, while yours is so powerful, it can deprogram us poor blind Christians, which you definately have not proven. I bet you spend a lot of time in the mirror.



"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father except through me." - Jesus Christ
__________________________
Jesus owns you.
http://www.ligonier.org
The Minister

[benCA]

mastadon you find it troubling that he won't even consider? why? thats because he is sure of his beliefs. When you consider other religions, that means you don't know what you're doing with your present life. When you consider other religion, you’re admitting that there is something else that is telling the truth, its telling that your current beliefs are meaningless.

[TheMinister]

. . . or at least spiritually wanting. This is just not the case. Good point benCA.

[mastodon]

Originally posted by TheMinister

mastodon - *I don't consider other religions now*, i do not understand how you cannot consider that your philosophy

where did you find this?! i did not say that.

i do consider other religions. i do know that i am a very confused individual. i do know that there are people out there more "knowing" than i concerning just about anything.

it was not my intent to be hostile toward you.

i know for a fact that i do not understand things as well as other people. it has been proven throughout my life: at home, in school, and at work.

ben:
exactly. people do not want to think or believe that their entire belief system is wrong. it is unnatural for people to do otherwise.

minister:
on the presentation of absolute truth: i do not believe the bible to be the holy, inherent word of God. if i did, we would not be at odds. the truths you presented:

Originally posted by TheMinister

If God incarnate, born of a virgin, who suffered, died, and rose from the dead is not enough, nothing will ever convince you.

don't "float my boat," as i do not believe the original accounts. this is why i posted for you the link:
http://outreachjudaism.org/questions.html
so you can see the reasons why i do not believe.

on nepal.com:

TheMinister:
PROVE IT! It is easy to sit here today and claim that the prophesies fullfied in the past are inaccurate or highly questionable, but mind you, anyone can make this accusation against any historical claim they want; the question is, is this scepticism warrented, reasonable, and intellectually prudent? I checked the site you listed, please be aware that this group is a loosly-knit clique of misinformed, highly emotional, very confused, Jewish folks who demand that the Messiah must descend as a conquoring king, one with the political will to destroy the Palestinines, the Iranian's, the Iraqis, the Sirans, the . . . not a bad idea considering the way these war-happy souls have been misbeavin these days. But Messiah has already come, now re-read the prophecies.

Stop your nonsense, read more, post less!

to which i replied:
you obviously did NOT read the articles. the articles were written without anger and spite. they were honest rebuttals to uninformed christian claims. how can you dispute errant translation?

the skepticism is warranted. dealings in the spiritual are always worthy of question and skepticism. the skepticism is reasonable. the rabbi tovia singer is a learned man, not driven by fanatical jewish ravings on the messiah. the group is not loosely knit. it is an organization of jews reacting to the zealous attempts of christians to convert jews [jews for jesus].

the skepticism is intellectually prudent. the rabbi obviously knows hebrew well. much better than you or me. the articles cite the prophecies you have posted and provide the literal translations, which make the christian claims baseless. claims such as the virginity of mary, jesus having a long life, his offspring, or lack therof.

my post was not nonsense. it was an honest attempt to respond to your thread. i do read, it may not be enough, but i read. as for posting less, that was my first post.

if you want to take some advice from a non-christian about your "witness," maybe you should be less hostile, and try, if you can, to be a little more intellignet. if you cannot be more reasonable, don't expect me to respond.

Mr. Mastodon

to which the minister do not reply.

http://nepal.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=344

i am not trying to "deprogram" you. i was calling my posts drivel as well. i do not presume to know more than you, or anyone else on the boards. as has been stated, i am only 19, and have endless amounts of "things" yet to know. i am not attempting to disuade you at all. i am voicing my confusion and inability to understand your viewpoint.

[TheMinister]

Let's keep in contact Huh? Sorry if I was a bit forward mastodon, over exposure to the verbally abusive, rabid Muslims in Morocco and Algeria can sometimes make one forget that not every virtual conversation is Holy War. It seems I may have fallen into their mean apolgetic for a post or two - please forgive me. Keep searching, Christ is very patient. The historical evidences for Biblical Christianity are just flat out superior to all other religious claims; denying this is akin to overlooking the brute facts because of presupposed philosophical bias'. If you want to judge a book, don't ask some else's opinion of it, pick it up for yourself, this is the only academically sound way to arrive at a judicious appraisal. I recommend reading the Bible for yourself in the following order: The Gospel of John, Romans, Leviticus, Hebrews, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Ephesians, Phillipians, Colossians, 1, 2, 3, John, 1, 2 Peter . . . by this point, the Holy Spirit will have fully persuaded you that this is no story book destined to collect dust on a bookshelf. C.S. Lewis, the great Christian writer, actually became a Christian when, as a harded skeptic and critic of the bible, read through it in an attemt to prove it a farce. He realized there was more at work than a gang of holy rollers scribbling on parchments; you I believe will wisely reach the same conclusion. Dispite what the critics say, Christianity is a faith founded on fact, and this truth is undeniable. Challange God to reveal Himself to you through this book, and I promise you, you will not be disappointed. Peace to you, I will be praying.

[mastodon]

i have read the bible roughly in the order you have proposed. i have also read it cover to cover. i am taken by its contents, but i am also so moved by the dhammapada, the tao te ching, the bhagvad gita, the popol vuh, and others.

i have been very active in the presbyterian church throughout my life. i am no stranger to christianity. i know of c.s. lewis. he was a skeptic who set out to debunk the bible. but through research and study, he came to find it as absolute truth. he had a fellowship as a tutor of english at oxford: obviously a very intelligent man. i have read the entire narnia series, the screwtape letters, the great divorce, and the absolutely incredible 'out of the silent planet' trilogy. he is an incredible author.

c.s. lewis embraced christianity, as have you. i am not you or c.s. lewis. every human approaches everything differently. what may be blatantly obvious to you, is not to me.