NO

[Andrey_V_Saiko]

Hi B.Ungaro.

You are right that there was a project of such kind of treaty. During NATO attacks of Serbia Yugoslavian parliament made a decision to join the Union of Russia & Belorussia. But Russian Government at that period rejected the offer, because the accept was meant = war with all the West. Because the Union of Russia & Belorussia is not only economic & political organization, but defense too.
But I agree that the bombing of Serbia was the answer to Russia who is who. Especially in the case of 1000 years friendship between our peoples, lots of wars when we were alias from wars with Byzantine, to Ottomanian Empire & Germany.

ABC

------------------

[Dr_Woland]

Hello cepguu

Thanks for your posting, you are perfectly within your rights to make such observations. Allow me to reply to some of them, as I disagree with all of them?

I'm not unmitigatingly hostile towards "China". I have quite a number of (ethnic Chinese) friends living in China right now, I've been there several times myself. I'm opposed to the policies of the present Government of China, for sure. It does not need me to spell-out all their actions, since they are well-documented by human rights organisations etc. As I said earlier, my antagonism is directed to any regime (and I named several of all kinds of political, ethnic and religious allegiance, not only China) whose government mistreats and brutalises its people. I am sorry to tell you, Mr Cepguu, that the Chinese Govt are well-documented for doing this on an institutionalised basis. Are you denying that these events occur? It's rather interesting that instead of challenging the facts (presumably because you can't?) you've launched into a personal attack on me instead. I suppose the facts must be quite uncomfortable for you, so I can understand why you want to change the topic to an attack on myself instead. A lazy man's way to argue a point.

I live in Russia - my professional work is involved with trade with Russia, and because of this, I am interested to know how Russia is perceived in the West. Your suggestion that I always promote the Russian viewpoint is, I feel, mistaken... you might not have noticed that I've been strongly critical of the Government's position over Media Control, and also of the tactics used in Chechnya?

I don't lecture to Russians - where did you get this idea? If you want to make such suggestions, then please produce some kind of quotations from me showing where I did? I have my own views on many things which happen in Russia, and they often don't match the Russian viewpoint at all.

Why don't I talk about England more? Dear Mr Cepguu, if you're able to open your eyes, have a look at the top of the webpage, and see what the name of this forum is? Is it "England.Com"? Have I mentioned how my Govt ordered its police to clear all protesters from the streets when the PRC delegation came? Do you remember that, Mr Cepguu?

Frankly, Mr Cepguu, your post to me sounds like you've taken a personal dislike to me. None of the reasons you've expressed have any basis in fact. You're simply trying to manufacture facts to suit your personal biases.

Yes, you have been disrespectful, and deliberately so. "utterly lonely, self-delusional, psychologically infantile, emotionally drifting, sad but annoyingly egotistical individuals".

So this is your description of me, is it?

It would be very easy to give you similar insults in return, but I prefer to talk about issues and facts, and I don't engage in personal abuse - I'm sorry to disappoint you if you were looking for a fight (as I think you were?).

If you have something to say about what I've posted, I'd welcome your opinions. If you simply want to trade insults, don't expect them to be replied to in future.

As far as "bragging myself" - please support this accusation with a quotation where I talked about myself AT ALL on this forum??

I'm sorry you felt the need to spend SO long attacking me with baseless insults, but have so very, very little to say about the topic.

I criticised the Govt of the PRC on the basis of its record. You've criticised me on... well, frankly, Cepguu, there's nothing to your posts except empty name-calling, and I expected better from you than that.

Dr W.

[Dr_Woland]

Andrey!

My apologies, my mind must have been somewhere else!

Dr W.

[cepguu]

Dear Dr. Woland:

I have not taken a personal dislike of you, for I have never met you.

I have taken a strong dislike of your tone and your style indeed. Have you noticed that nearly half of the postings written on these boards over the last few weeks have been from your authorship? Good God, dear friend, you do not promote the "Russian point of view", you advocate, indeed, you dominate the Russian.com with your point of view with an eagerness and tirelessness that I find embarrassing, and highly annoying.

On the question of China, I am a democrat, some of my old friends participated in the Tiananmen demonstration ten years ago. I would be the last to dispute the fact human rights in China needs improvement.

Yet your claims that China was "the worst human rights violator in the world" and that "Taiwan was a member of the U.N." contained such a degree of obvious ignorance, bias, and ridiculousness, that I honestly feel a very low motivation indeed to engage you in discussions on all of the specific issues that the international medias have reported on. I would, and I trust that other readers of these posts would too, find such arguments back and forth tiring, futile, tedious, and a waste of time.

I used some very unflattering adjectives to describe not you, but a certain type of westerners who surface in massive numbers in countries that are emerging from communism, Russia, China, Cuba, Eastern Europe (they surface in western societies, too, but the main stream of western society might have developed a little better immunity to them,
if only through resignation and fatigue). Such individuals, in short, have answers on everything, usually on problems that are not of their own. They are seldom aware of the lecturing tone that seeps out of every punctuation in their speech. And the poor folks who suffer from post-communism psychological debilitation syndrome have very few defenses against such onslaughts.

One recalls the famous Prof. Jeffery Sachs the "shock therapy" doctor and the wonderful feats he and his horde of world savers have left in Russia (a "trade representative"? Dr. Woland, you would be an expert on such matters, wouldn't you). Is there, I wonder, a case of collectively wounded ego on the part of all the western "therapy doctors", that the Chinese people did not crowd over en masse to the "doctors" for redemptions and salvation, yet chose a path of patience and compromise, following the terrible Tiananmen massacre?

I repeat, I do not know you, Dr. Woland, and henceforth cannot possibly harbour any personal dislike of YOU. I deduced, from many of your pronoucements on these boards, a high degree of likelihood of you being a perfect sample of that type of westerners that I described. I probably shouldn't have used that many unkind adjectives. It is partly because of my indignation over the great harm that they have brought to the people of Russia, and the even greater harm they could potentially bring to the people of China. My own feeling is that such "doctors" might do better to talk a bit less and think a little more nowadays. I make bold to presume that perhaps quite a lot of people in Russia have also become very, very sick and tired of their unending advices.

I trust that china will become a democratic country, not in the too distant future. I hope that China and Russia will form a non-military alliance, for mutual assistance in the reform process, without the guidance of all the western "doctors".

Dr. Woland, if I misjudged your membership, I ask for your forgiveness, sincerely. The only evidence I had were your massive presence on this internet board. You have yourself a nice summer in Moscow, better yet take many walks outside your dacha, pick some mushrooms. It may be more fun than spending all of your time in front of the computer. You are a learned man. Not everyone else is an idiot either.

Sincerely Charles Wang

Greetings Cepguu,
I am very glad that you showed up here. Please tell us the facts about Tiananmen
Sguare. Just the facts. If you have no facts,
please don't make up any. No hear-say please.
Were there people killed during the riots?
How many? Where do you get your facts? I tell
you what my problem is. All major TV Networks
from the US were there. They tell us about the massacre, but I have yet to see one dead
body. These people are good at showing dead
bodies. Example: Kent State University. Help me out with this, please.
Good Luck

[Dr_Woland]

dear Mr Wang

Thank you for continued insulting messages!

("those words were not directed at you, but at other men... and you are one of those men"? My word, Wang, what a "gentleman" you are!!)

As I told you, I don't reply to such messages.

Let me know if you want to discuss the topic sometime, instead of idle, 100% inaccurate, insulting guesswork about me and what I do in Russia?

Do you hear me trying to guess what you're doing in America? I could follow your example... by making some huge generalisations, some insulting cliches, some jokes about your name, and a guess at your profession, but don't worry, your work's already been done - you've managed to sidetrack this discussion from where it started so that no-one will discuss those issues. I wonder what your agenda is in trying to suppress that discussion?

Why don't you answer Chiukov???

Dr W.

[Dr_Woland]

>> I will try my utmost to be a gentleman with you <<

>> utterly lonely, self-delusional, psychologically infantile, emotionally drifting, sad but annoyingly egotistical individuals the modern western culture tend to give births to <<

>> I used some very unflattering adjectives to describe not you, but a certain type of westerners<<

>> a high degree of likelihood of you being a perfect sample of that type of westerners that I described. <<

>> better yet take many walks outside your dacha <<

And, my Dear Mr Wang, I hope that you'll take a hike too :-)

Dr W.