communist revolution

[Bavlin]

Tim
You say:
"Australia is a democracy, and where's its poverty? There is none, and that's because we have a welfare system".
I must question you here, cause Im living in Sweden which is a demoracy, BUT with poverty.
We have homeless people sleeping on the streets, in the subways. We have ahlcoholics, drug takers. I can go on if you want just ask me. Here we also got a welfare system, we are a democracy after all. Still we got this troubles with homeless etc. And you may say that this aint povetry but then what is? These people are poor dont have jobs, education, residence or money.
Note here Im not trying to offend you buy saying "youre wrong". I just want to know what you think povetry is, and as with any govermental type there is problems, even with democracy.

[Dr_Woland]

Hi Tim

You wrote:

>> Democracy, on the other hand, is not really forcing anyone to do anything. <<

I beg to differ. How many people in the USA, do you think, would have VOTED to send troops to Serbia? How many do you think even know where Serbia IS? Yet, President Bill and Madeleine Notbright took the decision that they were going to "get Milosevic". Now this had nothing whatsoever to do with helping the Kosovars, who were left to suffer until the UNHCR turned-up weeks later. No, this was about getting Milosevic (and creating a diversion from that thing about whether Monica Lewinsky inhaled or not).

And like it or hate it, the WHOLE OF AMERICA had to go along with that decision of Bill's. They were forced to do it, in fact.

As was the UK, in Blair's Thatcher-style poodling-up to whatever the USA says.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Communism's better. They are ALL politicians, and they all believe they have the right to force their populations to obey their every thought - no matter how insane, immoral or illegal it might be.

Dr W.

[timwright]

Hi Dr. W,

Sure, of course in a democracy we are made to do certain things. For one, we must abide by the laws of our nation. But what's that compared to what the Russians were forced into doing when they were governed by communism?

I'm not sure whether I understand what you were saying. When the troops were sent to Siberia, they were not conscripted, were they? Hence, they were not at all forced into going.

And if you're saying that the rest of America's population was against it, they still weren't forced to like the idea. They simply had no say in whether the troops went, which is what I think you're saying. This is, however, completely different to forcing people into labour and disallowing people the right to own their own businesses.

Hi Bavlin,

Good point! Maybe it's not so much the fact that a country is governed by democracy and has a welfare system, but instead the way in which they are both implemented.

Are you questioning whether or not Australia has poverty? Well, if Australia does, then it's very minimal. I have never seen a single beggar. This, to me, indicates that poverty is barely an issue.

What type of people receive social security money in Sweden? Elderly, youth, unemployed, single parents, people with low incomes, indigenous peoples?

From Tim

[Dr_Woland]

Hi Tim

In which campaign were the troops sent to Siberia? And whom, exactly, were they supposed to fight there?

The Soviet Union had enforced conscription into the Army for all males, for 2 years (or 3 years if the Navy). During WW2, all men of servicable age were conscripted.

>> Well, if Australia does, then it's very minimal. <<

Oddly, you mention indigenous peoples in Sweden - yet you haven't seen any of Australia's native people being poor? Tell me - since you've opened-up a time-slot here going back to WW2 - what kind of democratic values were behind the operation to take children from aboriginal-Australian parents forcibly, and foster them with whites instead? If Stalin had taken Kyrgyz children from their parents and fostered them with Russians in Moscow, I suppose you'd be howling about atrocities? But not, though, with Australia?

There's your lovely "democracy" in action, and just as ugly as anything done by Stalin. Only Australia managed to keep it quiet.

Democracy isn't a halo which hangs over "good" countries, and makes everything they do unimpeachably correct. ALL Governments do terrible, cowardly, inhuman, vicious, and ill-judged things. Putting a label reading "democratic", "communist", "dictatorship", "religious fundamentalist" or whatever onto countries does not either make their always blameless, or always guilty.

Dr W.

Dr W.

[Bavlin]

I just need to stand up and bow for Dr W.
You really got it right there. Youre posts are getting more and more intresting.

Tim you say youve never seen a single beggar in Australia. Where do you live?
Here in Sweden in the little town of Karlskoga we are only 32k inabitants and we dont have "beggars" if you think of poor people starving to death. But we do have ahlcoholics and drug takers that dont have real "homes". But if I go to Swedens capital town Stockholm I say you there you got those "beggar" that lives in the subways and are totally out of the system. Sweden is run by a socialistic goverment and has been for moost time since WW2. That makes we got a big welfare system with many sort of social security contibution. We do give money to elders, students, widowes etc. But still we got povertry. And about beggars, you know these guys/girls sitting in the subways, sidewalks etc playing guitarr and singing. What do you think they are doing? THye sure dont have a job do they?

[Bavlin]

Tim one more thing. As you prolly has noticed if youve found this site is there is a sister site to this named
sweden.com
Ive not there myself but there are peoples there in the forum too intrested by learning (just as myslef here and you) and those that lives in Sweden and knows about the structure (Dr W and others).

[Jk]

To TimWright
What did you mean Tim by "Siberia"?"Siberia"
is not "Serbia".It's the same thing like i
say Austria,not Australia.Ever heard about
last year military attack on Kosovo?
I think that your answer,if it's not
mistake,best demonstrates global political
situation in your country.
Your second question:here we also democracy
but we have a lot of poverty.Average incomes
are about 300 dollars.There is no enough
money nor for social issues,let alone other
problems.Answer is not that simple.Russia's
economy problems has it's roots still in 30-th years of this century when Stallin
completely destroyed their economy by
carring out plan of 100% colectivization when land was taken from small farmers
causing millions people die of starving.
Comprise that with Second world war and 20
millions victims on russian side and totally
ruined cities,industry and whole economy
and things are becoming easier to understand.Your country was never destroyed
by foreign military forces and your economy is constantly growning.The same thing you have in USA,or GB.In the other hand,Germany
was completely destroyed too,but they
already had better economic and technologic
infrastructure than Russia,and they received
help from countries which was not demolished
by war.So Russia,like today, once again had to start build new life.