Working with Russia

[Reza_Rahmani]

Russia’s current political and economic situation is unsustainable, and the country faces a choice: return power to the perestroikists – open to Western investment but only under carefully controlled terms – or surrender to reactionaries, who oppose Russia's kleptocrats. The reformists have had their chance; they have no legitimacy in Russia.

In both the Duma elections and the presidential campaign, Russians appear prepared to give the perestroikists – Putin, Primakov and others -- another chance. Ironically, that throws Russia’s future to the West. It will be up to Western leaders to accept or reject the return of a strong central government to Russia. It will be up to the West to decide whether they can work with Primakov and Putin.

Washington, London and Bonn will face the dilemma between supporting the revival of a strong central government with a self-interested foreign policy, or isolating Russia, allowing it to collapse, and reaping a whirlwind of reactionary forces.

Just now, after the Yugoslav elections, the Western Powers seem amenable to constructive involvement of Putin's administration in ousting S.M. Who knows, this might be a minor turning point.

Under strong Western guidance, Russia might be able to straighten out her affairs within the limits of her idiosyncratic oddities.

"Woland" mentioned in another thread that only by considering what the Russians want to do can one work with Russians. Unfortunately, what Russians "want to do" is most probably too replete with disingenuousness to arouse much warm feeling in potential partners. From what I have observed of: the entrenched presence of Mafia interests in business; of smart-ass arrogance and moral degradation of the "young Russians" in Moscow and St P. (no worse really than Eurotrash or Amerotrash, but not very timely) that some believe can save the country; and of the general weakness of a public will in Russia, things look bleak.

"Woland" I applaud your recent postings concerning immorality and arbitrary acts by so-called democratic governments. I was reminded of Aldous Huxley's thoughts during the 1920s. Perhaps your Huxleyan critiques might sway an opinion or two in Moscow.

For Bavlin: Regarding my reference to a steady brain drain from Russia, consideration of this process requires following its effect through many generations. Loss of talented people during the time of the revolution and certainly during the Stalin era still affects the present situation. Think of the law of conservation of momentum in physics; intellectual momentum in Russia was transferred abroad or simply annihilated; this cannot be recovered out of thin air; generations of effort only can retrieve it.

One last thing: While living and conversing with Russians in their home milieu I was struck by their fatalistic and rather nihilistic tendency to "forgive" each other. This was not the New Testament style of JC ('I do not accuse you; go and sin no more'). No, the "forgiveness" I observed was a moral laziness: 'It's no use, all you can do is forgive him.' I am not just fixating on a pet peeve; I observed this constantly like a leitmotif. Thus there is a kind of softness, an ethical spinelessness, present in Russian affairs; so that even if one reaches an agreement to embark on a joint venture, there will be an extra weight to carry, one that might well sink the whole enterprise.

My antipathy toward Russian behaviors come from direct personal experience. My attitude is not one that would lead me to just flail in a denigrating way; no, I am advancing a thesis: That Russia should be managed in main part by a careful coordination of foreign influence and financial injection to the end of reducing Russia's "russianness." This should be done for the benefit of the inhabitants, and to reduce the danger to the rest of the world from such as the Russian crime mob.

Russia's past in this scenario would become more akin to India's past: a museum of exotic beliefs and practices not directly relevant to mainstream concerns.

Reza

[oca]

Reza:

Thanks for your posting. It is refreshing to read a different assesment regarding Russia. I am sure you will be inundated with harsh postings and opinions, but that's what makes this thread interesting.

[Dr_Woland]

Good morning, Reza!

>> Russia’s current political and economic situation is unsustainable <<

Would you care to tell us WHY, exactly? They seemed to have fooled all the world banks and investment funds, who are back in Russia and see profitable developments in the future.

>> the country faces a choice: return power to the perestroikists <<

Whose phenomenal mismanagment of the economy remains legendary, and ensures they will NEVER be trusted with power again. A sad group of academics with no experience or ability in international economics or politics, led by an unreconstructed Communist on a damage-limitation exercise.

>> The reformists have had their chance <<

When was that? I must have blinked. When did you see Gaidar, Yavlinsky, Nemtsov, or Chubais in power? Which reformers are you talking about?

>> give the perestroikists – Putin, Primakov and others <<

WHAT??? Since when were Putin and Primakov on the same side? You believe Primakov is a perestroikist? Considering that he called perestroika "a politically naive policy", this seems unlikely.

What evidence have you seen in the Duma - or anywhere else? - that Primakov is likely to make any kind of comeback?

>> Ironically, that throws Russia’s future to the West <<

I would interpret the current mood in the Duma, and the country generally, as the exact opposite to what you've said. Where do you get your information for these extraordinary statements? Russia has already been stung three times by putting its future in the hands of the West. They are very unlikely to make the same mistake again. They watched Clinton and Blair bomb Belgrade - they know exactly who their allies are now.

>> between supporting the revival of a strong central government with a self-interested foreign policy <<

The choice has already been made. The revival already exists de facto. They have the choice of working with it, or opposing it - and in opposing it, to align themselves with the COmmunist Party. I doubt that is likely.

>> Under strong Western guidance, Russia might be able to straighten out her affairs within the limits of her idiosyncratic oddities. <<

I see your arrogance is undimmed. The strong western guidance turned-out to be a recipe for economic meltdown in 1998, but I see you're keen to try again - fourth time lucky?

>> the entrenched presence of Mafia interests in business <<

This is, indeed, a problem, but there is a bigger problem which you are ignoring. The "perestroikists" you love so much GAVE AWAY control of the State's major assets (TV companies, mines, energy resources, newspapers) to their friends, in exchange for political support. This isn't "mafia". It's far more pernicious than that. YOu seem unconcerned by it? Instead, you continue to believe that some organisation called The Mafia (which does not exist, by the way) is controlling Russia. WAKE UP!!! Boris Berezovsky controls Russia, and your idiotic perestroika pals PUT him there! Do you believe that having one man in charge of the national TV network is a good thing? When he can broadcast a pack of lies about his political opponents (Luzhkov, Primakov) to trash their reputations, and they have no right of reply?

>> smart-ass arrogance and moral degradation of the "young Russians" in Moscow and St P <<

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, and nor, Reza, do you. The words "straws" and "clutching" don't seem far away. If I'm wrong, then tell me what this DOES mean? "Moral degradation"?? This tells us a lot more about the level to which YOU are informed, than it does about Russia.

>> and of the general weakness of a public will in Russia <<

Once again, empty meaningless slogans you read in a right-wing foreign newspaper. Even if it were true (which it isn't), it is hardly the meat of an intellectual position, is it? You are certainly eleoquent, Reza, and have the skill of making empty-headed remarks seem sententious.

>> My attitude is not one that would lead me to just flail in a denigrating way <<

Well, show us otherwise then - because so far all I see is empty denigration, based on hunches, guesses and hearsay. Support your sweeping generalisations with some facts, for once?

>> I am advancing a thesis <<

It lacks a certain intellectual rigor so far.

>> That Russia should be managed in main part by a careful coordination of foreign influence and financial injection to the end of reducing Russia's "russianness." This should be done for the benefit of the inhabitants, and to reduce the danger to the rest of the world from such as the Russian crime mob. <<

You're living in cloud-cuckoo-land. You simply have difficulty dealing with another culture, and like most who do, you believe the answer is to demand it metamorphose itself into yours instead. I repeat - the medicines you and your kind have dealt-out to Russia, have failed - abjectly, utterly, and repeatedly.

Tell us what you have which is new in your quack-doctor medicine-case? Your mortality-rate is horrifically high, Dr Reza, yet you still believe in the same old medicines.

Dr W.

[Reza_Rahmani]

"Woland", you stated in a previous thread that you had spent 18 years in the Russian milieu. It seems that you have gone native.
I question your taste, but if you want to live by such standards, that's your choice. I am not suggesting "medicine" for Russia, but a form of annihilation. As for what kind of corrupt characters occupy the stage of Russian politics at the moment, it is of little import; like choosing between Smirnoff or Absolut.

Regarding the "Mafia," this term is used by all the Russians I have met both in the United States and abroad in FSU. I just accept their label. Furthermore I have directly encountered these criminals, a commonplace fixture in every Russian town I have visited, as well as in Russian enclaves in the United States. They are a plague, and they should be snuffed out. I have managed to get a few deported from the US; too bad I haven't the means to do something more aggressive.

In the Seattle area, Russian youths form gangs and emulate this scum that suffuses the society you love so much.

I maintain my thesis: That fatal character flaws in the Russian nation are "unfixable," and will foil all plans to integrate some analogue of the russian empire into the global community. The alternative is to regionally manage that land mass and populace by means of international and corporate arrangements following initiatives from the West and to a lesser extent from East Asia. The recent interest in investment you have referred to is in such a vein.

To Oca: Thank you for acknowledging that the rest of the world, outside the coloquium of Moscow, might be putting together ideas which simply leave out the "russophile" position.

Reza

[Dr_Woland]

Dear Reza

I retain sufficient objectivity to view situations as they arise - without a pre-disposed loyalty either to my own country, or any other country.

You seem to have difficulty deciding what you want. First you write >> My attitude is not one that would lead me to just flail in a denigrating way <<, and then today you completely contradict by writing:

>> I am not suggesting "medicine" for Russia, but a form of annihilation <<

I cannot reconcile these two different views, but perhaps you can tell us how they can be held simultaneously?

>> Regarding the "Mafia," this term is used by all the Russians I have met <<

Then you need to update yourself. Around 5 years ago this term was popular. However, things have moved on, and former mafia operations have trans-muted themselves into semi-legitimate, or even wholly legitimate businesses. They are still run by crooks, of course, but they are run legally. There is infinitely MORE money to be made that way, with less risk. COnsider, for example, the notorious "Uralmash" gang. They have now become a wholly legitimate operation, with offices, personnel, etc, they pay tax... Of course, they were formerly the most vicious of all the gangs, but the times have changed. Mouthing the cliches of yesteryear is no use today, Reza.

>> this scum that suffuses the society you love so much <<

You're full of venom and hatred. I wonder why? Actually, Reza, there are a lot of American thugs and gangs too. There are thugs in Britain, quite nasty ones. But I don't hear you denigrating the USA or GB. Only Russia. You seem to have some personal problem with it.

>> I maintain my thesis <<

Well, kindly do something a bit more to support this empty mouthing, than re-hashed unsubstantiated opinion from 10 years ago that you read in the right-wing press in the USA.

>> which simply leave out the "russophile" position. <<

It's slightly comical to see two yanks plotting how they are going to take over Russia, by persuading the Russians that they are a bunch of lazy low-down useless crooks and thieves, so let us run your country for you?

I notice you don't want to comment on the phenomenal mismanagement of the IMF in Russia which actually wrecked the economy? No, Reza, you are far too busy with your little obsessions and burning hatreds, to bother yourself with anything so uncomfortable as.... the facts? :-)

The EEC is currently working on an oil deal with Russia (which will freeze the US out in the cold, btw), based on cooperation and investment. Alternatively, you can try telling the Russians they're crooks, liars and cheats, so make way for Mr Yankee Doodle who's come to save ya (=screw ya) again. Don't touch that, boyo, the Yanks are in charge in your country now! Which sounds more appealing, do you think?

Dr W.

[Reza_Rahmani]

Time will tell, "Woland".

By the way I referred to Western and East Asian powers in reference to future direction of management of central Eurasia (this includes of course the EEC, China, Japan, USA, and lesser powers); I never suggested a Yankee hegemony.

As far as crime in other nations goes, and in particular crime in the USA, the fact is that the Russian mob is a galloping problem in comparison to other groups (such as for instance Colombians or Italians). The US Dept of Justice has moved the Russians into a top priority problem bracket.

Your reference to "five years ago," or even 25 years ago just makes me laugh. Do you really believe that widespread behaviors can turn on a dime? Get real. The words legal or illegal in Russia mean little.

Regarding the IMF, I suppose they just didn't want to do what the Russians wanted to do. Good for them. I have already stated that not a dime should have been risked by the West on Russia's behalf. IMF should have stood clear of the entire morass. Russia is very like the proverbial Tar Baby; the more one engages her, the more besotted and entangled one becomes in a snarl of depravity.

You are right to observe that I have a personal perspective in all this, a passionate one if you will; and ironically a Russian would respect this more than some arid "objectivity."

Reza

[Dr_Woland]

Hello Reza

>> Get real. The words legal or illegal in Russia mean little.<<

All I can do is tell you the situation here in Russia. You can either read what I say, or if your deep-seated hatred of the country you wish to "annihilate" blinkers your view, you can ignore it. It doesn't make it less true because one bigot ignores it, but if it makes you feel better and gives you something on which to grind your axe, please be my guest. People like you make no difference anyhow - sitting and theorising based on a radical misunderstanding of basic information? So whether you want to hear the truth or not, makes no difference to me, and no difference to Russia either.

>> Regarding the IMF, I suppose they just didn't want to do what the Russians wanted to do <<

No-one really cares what you "suppose". You're completely wrong (as usual) and since you can't be bothered to acquaint yourself with the most basic of factual information regarding topics on which you pretend such deep insight and strong views, then the term "bigot" is used advisedly - someone with immutable and hysterical views, but no knowledge of the topic.

>> I have a personal perspective in all this, a passionate one if you will <<

Yes, I would call it embittered racist hatred. Factual information which entirely disproves your position is of no use - you've already decided that you are determined to hate Russians regardless of logic or truth, and to hate me and others like me, because we refuse to join your jihad.

You are a bigot. And unless you have something fresh to add which is based on anything other than the raging hatred which burns within (ie, some kind of factual material), I don't see there's anything further to discuss.

Dr W.