Russian Observers?

[Reza_Rahmani]

From "Russia Journal" :

Fear of fraud: Russians want to monitor U.S. vote

SOME DUMA DEPUTIES want to monitor the election between Al Gore and George W. Bush Jr., claiming they fear the results could be falsified.

Deputies in the Russian parliament want to send a delegation to observe the Nov. 7 U.S. presidential election, saying they fear falsification of the results.

A resolution calling for the observer mission was submitted by a group of 11 deputies to the committee on international affairs in the State Duma lower house of parliament.

According to a text of the resolution made available, "the presidential elections in the United States cannot be a strictly internal affair of the United States, because they directly affect the vital interests of other countries."

Russian deputies were sharply critical of the U.S. response to recent parliamentary elections in Belarus, which the United States said were not democratic. The Russian parliamentary delegation said it observed no violations and called the elections free and fair.

The resolution said it was concerned by reports of an Internet site that offered to sell votes. It also said it feared falsification in Texas, California, "and in other territories forcibly annexed to the United States."

Among those signing the draft were Nikolai Ryzhkov, a former prime minister of the Soviet Union and former deputy prime minister Gennady Kulik.

According to pre-election polling, the U.S. presidential vote will likely be one of the closest in recent history, with Vice President Al Gore and challenger Texas Gov. George W. Bush Jr. alternating as the frontrunner.
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I say the USA should invite these observers.

Reza

[Olya008]

hmmm...on one hand, if America has nothing to hide or be afraid of, then it would be alright to let the "observers" in...but on the other hand, no country has any obligation or reasons to be watched during their private elections. It comes off as an insult to America and its institutions. As sad as this is, even if America IS involved in a false election, as long as it's kept from the media, America faces no penalties from abroad due to its status. The one with the power is the one that's right.

-Olya

[oca]

Olya008:

I think it is a great idea to let these Russians observers come here. But what if they don't want to go back?

The idea of these Russian politicians attempting to understand (free elections) something they do no know first hand is very funny.

[This message has been edited by oca (edited 31 October 2000).]

[Dr_Woland]

I agree, for several reasons.

First, I think that if the USA considers it has the right to send observers to elections in other countries, it is only fair that it should receive observers itself on the same basis.

Secondly, the observers may (possibly) gain from the experience of observing a USA election, although I don't, Oca, share your point of view (to which you are entitled, of course) that Russians know nothing about free elections. Where exactly do you draw your source-material from for this remark?

Lastly, I think the point is fairly made that the USA is not just "any other country", but the dominant power in world politics. The person who becomes US President exercises a terrifying level of power throughout the world, as we have seen in recent years. Although of course the "rest of us" have no vote in these elections, we nevertheless are materially affected by their outcome.

In my own country (GB) we have US armed forces and nuclear weapons facilities. There are currently four deaths of UK citizens (2 x road accidents, 1 x alleged murder, and 1 x rape + murder) attributed to US Forces personnell in GB, which cannot be pursued since the accused have immunity from prosection, and have been taken back to the USA. Similarly, those killed by the US jet which sliced the cable-car wires in N. Italy will never have a case heard - the pilots involved cannot be tried, and have walked away scot-free.

"All men are equal - but some are more equal than others".

Dr W.

[rodneymackinnon]

I agree DW

[oca]

Dr_Wodland:

Thank you for you insight in the U.S. judicial system.

<< that Russians know nothing about free elections>>. I read several articles in the Internet (European Yahoo), several local Italian papers, one or two Spanish local rags, and several U.S. publications, nothing specific, just general comments about Russian styles of politicking. I have not been to Russia during election campaigns, so my information is second hand.

<<US Forces personnel in GB, which cannot be pursued since the accused have immunity from prosecution, and have been taken back to the USA. Similarly, those killed by the US jet which sliced the cable car wires in N. Italy will never have a case heard - the pilots involved cannot be tried, and have walked away scot-free>>. I totally disagree with you for the following reasons:

a)U.S. military personnel, who commit a crime while abroad, are subject to the laws of the host country, unless the litigants reach a compromise, the defendants may be moved and tried in U.S. soil.

b)The pilots involved in the cable-car incident in Northern Italy were tried under the provisions of UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). I can assure you, that THEY DID NOT WALK SCOTT FREE as you indicated, so your misrepresentation of the facts is dishonest, and it is truly most regrettable, because the users at this thread believe in you.

I invite you to peruse the site in the Internet called Military Law and Justice (http://uppmlj.freeyellow.com/generalnews.html) so you can update your expertise in these and other legal matters.

c) No matter where our soldiers are located, if they break the law, and when apprehended, they will be brought to trial by competent authority.

You are normally very precise and well informed in your postings. Your research is top drawer. What went wrong this time?

Oca

[Dr_Woland]

Dear Oca

I must beg to differ. The pilot and navigator who killed 22 people in Italy when their dare-devil stunt of underflying a cablecar line went wrong, are free and walking the streets of the USA today. They have not served a day in prison for their offence. All they've lost is their Forces pension, and their job. But frankly, you could lose your job in a chocolate factory for breaking the rules, and you don't have to kill 22 people.

You, in the USA, might like to believe that justice has been done.

But I tell you this. If Italians came to the USA, and through deliberate recklessness in a position of responsibility caused 22 vacationing Americans to be needlessly killed, those Italians would not be free today. And you know that darned well.

There is one law for Americans, and another law for everyone else in the world, no matter how inconvenient or embarassing you find that.

Dr W.