us and russia

[Ulysses]

Kali, where are you getting your numbers for the Chinese military? The US military has around 1 million men. China has over 2 million. That's about twice as many men:

BEIJING -- The world's largest military is getting a little smaller. Monday, China announced plans to cut 200,000 more soldiers as part of efforts to modernize its armed forces -- cuts that come on top of a 500,000-man reduction in the five years ending in 2000.

In all, the military will shrink from about 2.5 million people to about 2.3 million.

The cuts will coincide with the introduction of more high-tech battle systems, Jiang Zemin, military commission chief and retired president, was quoted saying by state television and the official Xinhua News Agency.

"With the introduction of new technology -- especially information technology -- international competition in the area of military affairs is getting hotter," said Jiang, who still heads the government and Communist Party commissions that control the military.

China's military is still oriented toward ground combat with huge numbers of troops. Its planes, tanks and ships are antiquated, and its soldiers are poorly trained.

By reducing manpower, China can "maximize the use of its limited strategic resources and speed up information technology development in the military," Jiang was quoted as saying at 50th-anniversary celebrations for the National Defense Science and Technology University.

For years, China has been upgrading specific units to higher technical levels and shifting focus from sheer numbers of soldiers. The announcement of further troop cuts suggests that strategy is being adopted and entrenched across the military.

Military leaders had mulled an even bigger cut of another 500,000 men by 2005, but wavered after the United States went to war in Iraq, putting its high-tech fighting force on display, said Professor Maochun Yu, an observer of the Chinese military at the U.S. Navy Academy in Annapolis, Md.

"The high command has been wobbling back and forth" on the issue, Yu said in a telephone interview. Commanders have wanted cuts to reduce the traditional primacy of ground forces over the navy and air force, he said.

Such cuts are problematic, however, because jobs must be found for former servicemen and the military remains burdened with thousands of non-combat troops in areas such as logistics, propaganda and the party's political commissar system, Yu said.

"It goes beyond numbers to the question of what kind of people you cut," he said.

China's People's Liberation Army has undertaken nine rounds of reductions since the Communist party took power in 1949, falling from a high of about 6.2 million during the Korean War in 1951.

Chinese military planners consider the United States to be their biggest threat, and have spent years trying to refocus their forces to keep up with American advances in modern warfare.

Beijing has spent billions of dollars in recent years upgrading its arsenal with Russian-made fighter jets, submarines and other weapons. China's reported military budget rose by nearly ten percent this year to $22.4 billion, though analysts say the total figure could be five times that.

The Chinese military also has shifted strategy to dovetail with its highest priority -- uniting the island of Taiwan with the mainland.

The strategy moves away from the notion of sending waves of troops across the Taiwan strait. Instead, China is believed to be focusing on the prospect of an air and sea blockade and the use of high-tech missiles and even computer viruses to cripple its rival's economy.

Jiang's announcement also indicated his continuing influence in military affairs. Though he relinquished his posts of president and party chief over the past year, Jiang has given no indication when he might hand his military commission posts to his successor, Hu Jintao.

Jiang, who never served in the armed forces, was shown on TV in an olive green military-style tunic standing before an auditorium full of uniformed troops. He was shown posing for photos with soldiers and touring the facility, applauding demonstrations of robots and other experimental technology.



"Chinese military to shed 200,000 troops"
http://www.idsnews.com/story.php?id=17837

[justin1987]

well, well, we have all seen what america, with all her sofisticated weapons and gadgets can do. they got bombs raining on their high buildings( the higher the more) , they failed to pin up osama bin laden, despite brushing up the full of afghanistan with their so called effective bombs
and very recently, they got a rather embarassing slap after trying to play bully with iraq. now, every day, she's getting her soldiers killed.serves her right!
but , what does she do? she goes about begging other countries such as italy, britain,france, russia , india, china , phillippines, and others asking for troups.and what does she get? she gets the stick on almost all occassions, except, of course, barring a few!
indeed, she is great!!!

[Voyager13b]

Originally posted by justin1987
well, well, we have all seen what america, with all her sofisticated weapons and gadgets can do. they got bombs raining on their high buildings( the higher the more) , they failed to pin up osama bin laden, despite brushing up the full of afghanistan with their so called effective bombs
and very recently, they got a rather embarassing slap after trying to play bully with iraq. now, every day, she's getting her soldiers killed.serves her right!
but , what does she do? she goes about begging other countries such as italy, britain,france, russia , india, china , phillippines, and others asking for troups.and what does she get? she gets the stick on almost all occassions, except, of course, barring a few!
indeed, she is great!!!

Well, you might have a point there. On the other hand, who do those "fig" flashing countries run to when they are brutalized? Hmmm... it seems to me that some countries are more secure in telling the one country that they can count on to defend their lives and culture to fukk off than they are in meeting the real threat head on. It's like a required ritual to prove national pride during times of relative peace.

You applaud the killing of American soldiers in Iraq, but I'd bet that you would be among the first to beg for the support of the US if your sorry a$$ found itself at odds with your new Islamic leadership in Europe. No need to deny it or make BS excuses about oil or world domination. The simple truth is that if your a$$ was in a sling, you would kiss America's butt to get out of it.

Freedom has a price, and it isn't cheap. I honor the soldiers that have lost their lives in Iraq. I hope the effort is maintained, and that the terror threat to society is rendered impotent everywhere that it raises it's head. If you despise the desire to live free so much, why don't you volunteer to join Al Queda. I'm sure that there is a Marine somewhere that would like to meet you.



Voyager

[justin1987]

freedom is indeed sweet and nor i and nor most certainly you will dissagree with its virtues. but thats another thing. have u forgotten that the american soldiers are not laying their lives for their freedom as they are already free? they are doing it for someone else. now it surely will seem nice and good to say that these soldiers are really great and noble to lay down their precious lives for someone else. but tell me something. you are a senior member, so u must be having children. would u , then , agree to sacrifice ur child's life for someone else's sake?
would u readyly give up ur child smilingly, claiming that he is real great and would reach to the heavens for doing such noble a thing? surely, like any other father, u wouldn't.
u completely misinterpret me when u say that i applaud the killing of american soldiers. i say it in a collective note that it serves america right that it is loosing her people after trying to pokeinto other's business. now u might argue that she's doing it for iraq's freedom from the tyrraneous saddam. but frankly speaking, who would disagree that actually america was more interested in serving her own interests, with an eye on the iraqi oil deposites.
u are again wrong in saying that all countries are dependent on america for their surival. but my brother being an engineer, and working in america, i , for one know how america is dependent on countries such as india and china and germany, for the development of her software industry. why else do u think are american jobs transported to overseas locations such as india, and what do u think is the reason behind americans losing their jobs by the day, to their indian counterparts, even in their own country?

[Voyager13b]

Originally posted by justin1987


u are again wrong in saying that all countries are dependent on america for their surival. but my brother being an engineer, and working in america, i , for one know how america is dependent on countries such as india and china and germany, for the development of her software industry. why else do u think are american jobs transported to overseas locations such as india, and what do u think is the reason behind americans losing their jobs by the day, to their indian counterparts, even in their own country?

Well Justin1987, you ignore history if you try to deny the fact that America has been a stabilizing influence for freedom in the world. Your remark about US soldiers not fighting for their own freedom in places like Iraq is also wrong. The US is not an island in the sense that it can ignore the building of the terrorist threat abroad. Liberating Iraq, and helping to build a strong free society there now will save endless suffering on US territory later if the problem were ignored. They are fighting for their own freedom. Mine too.

Having been in the computer industry since the late 70's, I think it is safe to say that the free and open society of the US CREATED the software industry in the first place. The fact that so many people from other countries have succeeded as innovators and code writers is proof that education and desire transcend economic and national boundries. There is opportunity for those who are willing to make the effort.

You mentioned Indians taking away American jobs in programming. I don't see it that way at all. The jobs are there, and anyone with the needed skills, and the desire to get the job done can apply. It is far easier for an American national to work here than it is for an Indian. If an Indian gets the job, he probably deserves it.

Even in the case of offshore contract software development, I don't have a problem. If an Indian or Russian company can supply the talent to get the job done at less cost, so be it. American firms that charge $300 per hour for what other well educated people around the world are willing to do for $75 per hour will have to re think their fee scale. It's called competition, and it helps keep the world pointed in the right direction, while helping consumers stretch their Dollars, Rubles, and Dinars a little further. If If only someone could figure out a way to make that happen in the medical and legal industries, we would all be better off.

By the way, back in 1998-2000, I worked for a software development company here in the States that is owned by an Indian national, and staffed by mostly Indian nationals. He pays very well. He would try to fill out his programming staff by providing visa support for other Indians, but not at the expense of getting the best person for the job at hand.

My observation was that the Indian code writers on our staff were loyal, motivated, and tireles. If I was at a customer location on the west coast, and needed to get several members of the coding team together on a conference call at 2am eastern time in order to shoot a bug, it would be less than an hour before everyone was ready. If it took all night to get the job done, so be it. As I already stated, we were all paid very well, but I can think of more than a few American college grads that I have worked with over the years who would have packed it in and said "not in my job description".

It's not perfect, but the free market is a lot better for everyone than the pyramid scheme offered by protectionists and union leftists.

Voyager

[justin1987]

indeed voyager, with time, i feel that i admire ur logical and linguistic skills which has been very good and persuading indeed. i cant but help praising u for ur wonderfull answer when u said that it was indeed america who had first introduced software. ur's reffering back to history also proves that ur wonderful argumentative skills are backed real strongly with a wide ocean of proper facts.
however , i do think , that we are slowly but surely moving away from our actual topic of debate{ which very much, it is.
nevertheless, continuing from where u left, i would remark that a man just cannot sit down on his inventions and marvel at his own creative genious, but indeed , should strive harder for further development.
who, do u think , is responsible for the steep rise in computer and software technology? do u think it is solely america? then , i should ask u , { being a software technologist, u should know } have u heard of the iit in india? its full form is the indian institute of technology. its an engineering university{ by and large} and if u have indeed heard about it u should also know about its standard. its entrance examinations are one of the toughest in the world, and the budding software engg comming out from there, are indeed one of the best . therefore, it is likely that , due to their better knowledge , they get all the top jobs in america, at the cost of their american counterparts. { which , u yourself have agreed} . now, thinking rationally, a country's power and influence today, basically depends upon its software development , and america's status as the country having the latest and most advanced software gadgets cannot be undermined. thus, putting two and two together we can very easyly deduce that it is due to these very talented engg from india{ by and large} that america's improvement in software fields has become so marked, and consequently, it has resulted , with america's further development as world power! to assist my views in this matter are the words of goerge bush himself, who said very recently, " the greatest gift from india are the import of its higly advanced engineers to america."
putting this issue aside, and taking up history and the facts it offers, here's this:
i'm not a supporter of bin laden, and indeed , the quicker he is destroyed, the better it is to the world. and in this case indeed america has been damned correct in trying to flush him out of afghanistan.{ wether they have been successful or not is another thing} but , tell me, who do u think has created bin laden? AMERICA. { DO U KNOW WHY?}..............

[USMC_ReCoNSnIpeR]

katalin r u joking. manpower doesnt matter these days. us has the best planes,the most planes, best pilots, most ships. china thinks there all cool wit like 2 million men. so what we can draft people too OOH COOL. china hasnt even fought a war in decades there solders would be OWNED on the field. our technology is far beyond theres. like 70% of the people ni china live in handmade wood and leaf houses wit no fones or anything. there poor as h*ll. we'd bomb the sh*t outta them before they could even mobilize tehre army. Japan would probably have a better chance considering that have very modern ships and us equivilent technology.(if they were alowed to have a army). so go crawl in a corner and die.