us and russia

[ahem]

Originally posted by Greg_P
The F-117 stealthier than the F-22? I don't think so. Go back to Physics 101.

So, what's better than the F-22?

Tell me, and make it a plane that is currently flying in service or in development for deployment TO service. I don't want to hear about the MiG 1.42/44. It is a prototype with many things that will compromise stealth and speed. The cockpit closure doesn't even have the required sawtooth closure for the skin. It is not in current buildup for deployment like the F-22 is and it has not had any public acknowledgement of any weapons firings or other new development. It looks like it did 10 years ago.

The B-2 can be shot down by any armed aircraft fast enough to catch it. All you have to do is find it. At night and in bad weather. Good luck. To date, no one has done so.

The MiG-29 is a good aircaft for its generation. So are the Su-27/30/35 aircraft. They are in the F-15 generation --- great planes but no attention to stealth.

There is a place and a market for them. At this time, the Su-35 /37 is probably a better-performaing airframe than the F-15 is ... as far as airshow tricks go.

What is their combat record? The F-15, which cannot hope to defeat an F-22, has a 122 to-0 combat record, mostly against older Soviet-Russian types. Some say it is 122-to-1 or 2. Either way, it has surpassed any other production fighter aircraft in combat record by a large amount. The next best figher goes back to WWII at 19-to-1. That would be the Grumman F6F Hellcat.

Talk to me about the MiGs when they have a combat record to defend against a modern US aircraft. Don't tell me about victories over A-4's (1950's planes) or F-4's (1950-1960's planes). And I won't tell YOU about victories against MiG-15's, 17's, 19's, 21's, 23's or 27's. Or Su-17/22's either. The F-15 is SUPPOSED to beat them, so they're not much of a reason to brag. However, feel free to tell me about all the F-15's that any Soviet or Russian fighter shot down for any reason anywhere.

I believe in my heart that the newer MiG's and Sukhoi's are VERY good planes. So is the F-22. So will be the F-35.

When these aircraft have faced off against each other, then we can talk about it. Until then, published figures from either side are suspect. The U.S.A. will NOT tell either the US citizens or the rst of the world what the real performance is. The Russians won't tell the Russian citizens or the rest of the world what the real performance of the SuperFlanker, Su-37, or the MiG 1.42.44 is either. So ... we're talking in circles since there IS no objective evidence.

Personally, I hope we keep guessing and keep basing these discussion about airshows because I want Russia as an ally. Together we can become more than the sum of our two parts. And we BOTH make great aircraft. I think ours are better and you think your s are better.

Heck, that's the way it SHOULD be. If not, we need to design a NEW plane to counter yours. It is not needed at this time.

Maybe at some time in the future we can buy and fly the same aircraft since we will be allies. Then we can talk about who has the better paint job and the best tires on our front line fighters.

F-22 is better. Better for what? In real life it would be used to control air supremacy over enemy terittory. Territory guarded by S-300s. S-300 will blow any plane currenly flying (including F-117, B-2, F-22) out of the sky any time of the day or night, in any weather. There is also a question of MiG-31s. If F-22 ventures within a 900 km radius of a group of four MiG-31s it'll be shot down, stealth won't help, there goes your BVR. In WVR an F-22 would really have a hard time in the presence of MiG-29s and the Suhojs. As to AtoA loses, I have heard that USAF lost at least four F-15 of different modifications in the Gulf War, and there were also loses of F-16s, and F-18s, I believe that because I know what USAF statistics show of the Korean and Vietnam wars (I know that I've mentioned it before). As performance of Russian aircraft goes, I've seen MiG-29SMT/K/M, Su-27/27UB/30MK/35/37/47 in flight in real life and made my own judgements from that,as well as from the fact that no US aircraft can fly without FBW. What if in real war a strong EMP is released in the atmosphere, and all US planes will fall down while Russian ones will keep on flying?

Present USA and Russia will never be allies.

[USMC_ReCoNSnIpeR]

whoa ahem ur funny NOT we werent looking for a firendship we were making sure that u werent making some crack hor weapon or something all counties do it. spy on others. ok ur right the m16A2 isnt the best but the guns the S.W.A.T or some other special forces use (M4A1) which is like supped up is the best in the world dont give me any bs bout ur AN-69 or RN-94 w/e. PLus russia is soooo far back in technology in SOOO many things. We are far more supiroer in computers, tanks, boats. what u guys think is "ooh quanity has its own quality" but it doesnt. in the 1960's annd 1970's u had like 300 subs and we had like 140 or something and u had like 500 curisers and we had like 200 less. but ours are better equiped, they are in perfecty shape, and are the ebst out there. u only have like 300 subs that are like half broken and break down ALL the time. u cant deny that. they made movies on that subject. u guys spend like all ur money in military instead of improing ur technolongy and stuff. the truth is the us had a better overall military. QUESTION do u russians speak english or does the comp like translate russin to english. my b-day is comming up so no more talk about planes for a while.

[USMC_ReCoNSnIpeR]

holy crap the ahbrams is the best out there u pot smoker. also no the rusisan gov was sucking some a*s and needed money so some guy in the us bought it from u and he was critisized and years later we found gold and oil and u lost millions maybe billions ur loss.i admitt the us is greedy so what the early bird gets the worm. yes our stuff is better then urs. my a*s is the answer to ur stupid military. PLUS on one of your space stations i think the latest one i dunno somethinbg the us sent liek 12 american asurnauts to go on a russian space station so whats 50 50 so it counts as ours too. numbnuts and no ur not getting alaska back. the penquins polar bears oil and diamonds and gold is ours.

[ahem]

USMC_ReCoNSnIpeR, it gladens my heart to see for myself how shallow and stupid americans are. So far your posts contained utter nonsense that you absorb from Hollywood movies, as you said yourself. Your superiority rests with your M4A1, but in reality it is American technology that is behind. Actually there is no such thing as "American technology" all your scientific giniuses are from Europe, India and Asia. As for Alaska, we are not going to ask it back of you, when a few Topol-Ms hit your nabourhood, thousands of silk canopies will open in your sky and the rest of your fat boiled asses will die under lead rain, then it will be ours anyway.


P.S. AN-69 or RN-94, I assume you meant AN-94 and AEK-971?

[USMC_ReCoNSnIpeR]

are you serious america is not behind. oh yea thats why we're the last remaining superpower and the most powerfull and richest country in the world right yea. our technology is the bets out there. ur country is sooooo poor. there are very very few things u cant get in america. and we make the most weapons next to u (russia). the truth is u could never take us. we would have the rest of the world on our side. Russia isnt a very good name. i mean im lithuania which was russia at one point and im russian and polish and german. if u ever came to america like to new york u'd see what the us is really like. our technology is sooo supiror im myself i admiit im not too smart i am but i got to the best school in new jersey and i get b's. PLUS the whole world is watching you russia so u cant do sh*t. Your military(some) and computers and stealth are years behind. our tanks are the best in the world dont deny it or i'll shove a stick up ur a*s. no more wise a*s talk either ahem or w/e. and dont puit ur stupid little russian picture on each of ur replies takes up room. R U JOKING WE SELL INDIA EUROPE AND AFRICA MOST OF OUR WEAPONS. sometimes we give them away like to south korea, u stupid numbnut we dont use europes stuff r u joking.

[WPOCC]

hey biotches stor F@CKING AROUND ABOUT EACH OTHER COUNTRIES. IM SICK OF IT! RUSSIA HAD A BEAT UP ECONOMY BECAUSE IT HAD TO SUVIVE MILITARILY TO BE A COUNTRY. THEY HAD NO FUNDS LIKE THE US WE ADMIT IT. THE US IS BY FAR THE YOUNGEST SUPERPOWER. BUT BRITAN IS STILL A SUPER POWER EVEN WITH A DOWNSIZED MILITARY. the russians AND the americans are equal in thier armed forces. so leav it. i noe im studing military science AND HAVE STUDIED ALL FORMER AND CURRENT SUPERPOWERS.

[USMC_ReCoNSnIpeR]

nice eyerad u american. at least this site has someone who knows what there talking about "ahem ahh stupid idiot". plus the m4a1 is the best. its used by many special forces around the world and thats because ITS THE BEST. so dont give me any stupid trash about ur pieces of tin u call guns. todays my birthday