Putin approves ratification of Kyoto

[T-34_Fanatic]

finally a leader with some sense. I'm glad to see Putin not get pushed around by Bureaucracy. In the long run Russia's entry into the WTO is good for the economy anyways.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...kyoto_protocol

[Edited by T-34_Fanatic on 1st October 2004 at 07:56]

[Voyager13b]

Originally posted by T-34_Fanatic
finally a leader with some sense. I'm glad to see Putin not get pushed around by Bureaucracy. In the long run Russia's entry into the WTO is good for the economy anyways.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...kyoto_protocol

[Edited by T-34_Fanatic on 1st October 2004 at 07:56]

It is too bad that even though Putin is aware of how bad the Kyoto treaty will prove to be for the countries who sign it, he had no other bargaining tools that were valuable enough to the Europeans that could have guaranteed Russia acceptance into the WTO. I would have preferred to see Kyoto die on the vine, but I think it is important for Russia to be a full player in the WTO as soon as possible.

Voyager

[T-34_Fanatic]

Curious. Interesting to see someone who is against Kyoto. I personally think Kyoto is not even enough. But may I ask why you disagree. Do you reject the science of Green house emissions and global warming?

So a couple of people might(not likely)lose their jobs. Green technology will create new jobs for those who are really suffering, the young.

[Voyager13b]

Originally posted by T-34_Fanatic
Curious. Interesting to see someone who is against Kyoto. I personally think Kyoto is not even enough. But may I ask why you disagree. Do you reject the science of Green house emissions and global warming?

So a couple of people might(not likely)lose their jobs. Green technology will create new jobs for those who are really suffering, the young.

T-34,

Yes, I do reject the science as being too immature to be able to draw such conclusions. Remember the CFC scare, which was built upon the same infant foundation? It cost modern economies a fortune, cost developing countries even more as a percentage, and in the end, only stuffed the bank accounts of governments with billions of Dollars worth of tax revenue before the movement lost momentum due to diminishing evidence returned by "science".

The worldwide CFC legislation enacted decades ago continues to burden the world with billions of Dollars each year in costs that are a legacy of that "earth saving" movement, but the movement itself, and future penalties that it planned to enforce have become part of the fabric of history. Even though it turned out to be false science, the true beleivers were never let down. The "scientists" just let the idea fade away, while excusing the panic they caused as being worthwhile just in case they were right in their initial thoughts.

Green is good in my opinion, and some places (like Russia) could stand to clean up their act within the bounds of what we are certain is having a negative impact on the population, but no matter how heartfelt the issue, I cannot agree with turning the global budget over to science as if it were a god. It is not. Science is based, among other things, on passion. Forming an idea and working to prove it lead to breakthroughs in understanding.

Declaring that having an idea is the moral equivalent of truth is a lie. To proclaim that the world must alter it's course because a certain percentage of your peers share a basic idea, despite the fact that current models refuse to prove the idea is nothing more than promoting a damn lie.

The facts are that within the scientific community, there are people who buy the idea of global warming, and those who do not buy the idea. The tools they have available do not allow the global warming crowd to draw a conclusion that cannot be denied by the others. Launching a public opinion campaign does not help prove the theory. It only forces people to spend money that could be better spent on other things until the debate is settled.

If human activity over the past 200 years can be attributed to impending global disaster, we have a few years to make an ironclad case before we use the god of science in a feel good attempt to restructure world power, redistribute world wealth, and permanently enslave developing naitions.

Back in the late 70's the news was full of stories of how we were on the brink of the next ice age.....

Global warming and the proposed antidote sound very warm, fuzzy, and human, but it's core proponents are rotten with politics right now, and a lot of otherwise caring people are being taken for a ride.

It's not simply a matter of a few people losing their jobs for the benefit of all humankind. It's about a rapid restucturing of the world economy from getting ahead by serving your fellow man, to staying alive by pleasing the state, and it's scientific god. Show me proof of theory that is accepted by both camps, and I'll join the discussion on how to deal with the problem. Meanwhile, the so called "green" wing of "science" has been coopted by a political philosophy that doesn't care a whit about truth. The solutions to the global warming theory proposed by Kyoto are more about resetting the global sandbox of power and wealth than saving the world.

Kyoto is an economic disaster wrapped in a happy face napkin. By the way, I liked that line about how green tech will "save the people who are really suffering, the young". Suffering how? Suffering from what? How will developing, building, implimenting, or enforcing products and services introduced by decree help anyone in the long run?

Voyager

[SRDs_Revenge01]

Not everyone in Putin's cabinet was all smiles after he signed this. Most of his economic advisors warned against it, saying the benefits (couple hundred million euros) were pennies compared to what should be made without the Treaty. We'll see if Putin's sway with United Russia is as iron clad as everyone believes.

[Voyager13b]

Originally posted by SRDs_Revenge01
Not everyone in Putin's cabinet was all smiles after he signed this. Most of his economic advisors warned against it, saying the benefits (couple hundred million euros) were pennies compared to what should be made without the Treaty. We'll see if Putin's sway with United Russia is as iron clad as everyone believes.

SRD,

I tend to agree, but I don't think that Putin just pushed aside the thoughts of his advisors on this one. He made a big play by hooking up with France and Germany, and this move seems to be part of it. There must have been some hefty promises made to him by his new partners, and they must figure that together, they can steer the US as they please.

Time will tell.....

Voyager

[scandinavian]

Originally posted by T-34_Fanatic
finally a leader with some sense. I'm glad to see Putin not get pushed around by Bureaucracy. In the long run Russia's entry into the WTO is good for the economy anyways.

Dam*! I was kinda hoping for a warmer planet. Why can't we just let global warming continue? These same people complain about there being too little water on the planet and now, through the Kyoto protocol they will lessen the amount of water even more!

This should be bad news for the Eqyptians as well since global warming was making their country more humid, which could turn some of their deserts into forests. (I know they have signed the treaty though..)

The Kyoto protocol is nothing but a hook made by the Europeans to try to steer the world into a one world government. Next time they will try to make the world pay taxes to the UN. President Chirac of France has already proposed a global "Poverty Tax" to be collected by the UN.

The US is doing the right thing in abandoning it.