Future of Russia?

[Bato]

Helo and privet to all.
I whant to ask you one question (especialy russian members) - What is the future of russia? How do you see Russia in 50 or 100 years? Is it western country, or is it country that St.Serafim Sarovsky described? Can Russia (for example) ever be Czarstvo again? Will Russia desepire? Or not? What do you think?

[Soviet78]

No one can totally accurately predict the future, but there are some indicators that show where the country's going. In my opinion, unless something is done to change the economic situation within the country (like my ideas on nationalizing resources), the country will go to a dangerous area.

Of particular importance: the demographic situation: Russia's population continues to decline, without sufficient replacements (either through immigration or new births). I have read in several sources that unless something happens soon, that the country will undergo a continuing decline, where by 2050 the population will only be 50 million.

[Sweeper]

Bato most of the Russki's on Russia.com are not beleivers, but I am, and I can tell you with certainty Russia will win (the conventional part) of world war 3

[In-Russia]

My opinion: Russia can't become a Western country. Capitalism does exist here but it is not of the (perfect?) form. (The West believes they have evolved their capitalism and democracy to a perfect form; but with this belief it is as far away from the perfect as never before) Russia is so different. They can't live with the values dictated from the West - they don't fit with the Russian culture (by culture I do not mean the folklorique music and the items of a national history museum! What I mean is the Russian soul and the way of living).
There is a lot to work on here in Russia and it will be a success if Russia finds its own way based on certain rules like: human rights, no corruption etc.
Regarding the demographic problem: I also have read several statistics that there will be not more than 50 mio Russians by 2050. I think if this country is getting on improving its attractivness (it is attractive to do buisness with Russia, wether you belief it or not!) than they won't run out of population. The only problem might be the acceptance of the new mixture of population: I know that from my own country - Switzerland. Of a population of (only) 7 mio there are 1.2 mio of foraigners. Every sixth is not Swiss! But it does work apart from some little problems.

btw. what do you mean by "the conventional part of world war 3"?

[Soviet78]

In-Russia:

"Capitalism does exist here but it is not of the (perfect?) form."


You're certainly right there! To say the least would be that it's not in its perfect form.

"(The West believes they have evolved their capitalism and democracy to a perfect form; but with this belief it is as far away from the perfect as never before)"


The West's form isn't perfect?


"Russia is so different. They can't live with the values dictated from the West - they don't fit with the Russian culture (by culture I do not mean the folklorique music and the items of a national history museum! What I mean is the Russian soul and the way of living)."


I know exactly where you're coming from there! It's so hard today trying to emulate the success of the west in western methods because many Russians just aren't used to them.


"it will be a success if Russia finds its own way based on certain rules like: human rights, no corruption etc."


Well, those are two things (especially the first one) that have been hard for Russians over the centuries, and (unfortunately?) it seems that Putin is going to continue the tradition.


"I think if this country is getting on improving its attractivness (it is attractive to do buisness with Russia, wether you belief it or not!)"


Yes, businesses do love a country down in the dumps, because it's easier to exploit. I just wish that the government had a larger role to play in increasing our own wealth (sticking with the Russian stubbornness to better ourselves by ourselves).


"The only problem might be the acceptance of the new mixture of population: I know that from my own country - Switzerland. Of a population of (only) 7 mio there are 1.2 mio of foraigners. Every sixth is not Swiss! But it does work apart from some little problems."


Well, I know that in Europe there has been a population growth, mainly due to the increase in immigration. The ethnic Europeans are in a decline similar to Russia's (except there's not as many people leaving the country). The difference is that they are receiving people from other countries (particularly from the Middle East), whereas Russia is only getting a trickle from China.


By the way, what do you think of the immigrants? I have read about the problems in France and Germany from the Turkish immigrants, and have come to the conclusion that the best solution is France's: You are a French citizen. You can have your religious and cultural rights, but you must follow the authority of the state. I think that's fair, considering you're living in that country. I believe you have to follow the rules of that nation. Being a secular state really helps I think, because it gives that notion of equality, as opposed to if France followed strictly Roman Catholic ideals. I don't really know too much about Switzerland's policies.

I just feel bad for those French people in Iraq who got killed because the government wouldn't lift restrictions on the headscarves issue. That was the turning point right there for my views on those terrorists. They presume that they can just dictate to the world what everyone is going to do by threatening to murder people, especially the people who supported them in their struggle against America (supported verbally, at least). Absurd!

In Russia I know that the Chinese are becoming an "issue". Perhaps Alex_Ivanov knows more about this (he lives in the far east, if I'm not mistaken), but I heard that many Chinese move to Russia, and overtake Russian cities, refuse to learn the language, or to follow the laws, etc. That, in my opinion, is not appropriate (no offense to any Chinese people, especially you sfan1401), this is only concerning the practices of these particular immigrants.


Sweeper:

"Bato most of the Russki's on Russia.com are not beleivers, but I am, and I can tell you with certainty Russia will win (the conventional part) of world war 3"

I can tell you that I am not one of those believers. First of all, can you list the causes of this war? Second, with Russia's decline in military spending, and therefore quality of military (they're having a hard time in Chechnyna!), while the US's increases (due to "terrorism"), how can you justify that Russia would win? If you're talking about China, they're also increasing their technology, and with their numbers, that would only be a bad thing. Europe? Well, America would help them, plus the Germans now have the best of Soviet AND American technology.

[sfan1401]

Well, Soviet78, i will say that ur "allegations" about Chinese in Far East is pretty off, but still contains some truth. U must realise i do know a lot of chinese who does biz outside China, and chinese in russia actually DO follow laws learn Russia whatever but the problem really i think is money. U see chinese are called Jews of the Orient and is pretty true if u see the situation in SE Asia (Chinese diaspora controls all the wealth.) and the Chinese in Russian far east inherently would be better biz men than native russians cuz first of all their LACK OF DRUNKNESS!!!

Now there was a article aon a chinese site about a guy who went to russian far east and made a 100 millions dollars. There is a lot of those examples. Clothing: whereas chinese biz man pick up the fashion in a month, rus biz man pick it up in HALF A YEAR, according to THE CONSUL-GENERAL OF CHINA IN ST. PETERSBURG. Obviously the chinks r gonna make more money and that causes dissatisfaction and resentment.

Also a lot of those chinese men marry russians (to stay in russia) that make russians unhappy too.

I would say russians shouldn't be so suspicious but at the same times i must say f i were in their shoes i dont think i would have done different.

[In-Russia]

Hey, it's great talking to you disregarding the aggressive post from one particular member. Please put your post to an other forum or start your own thread...

Soviet78, I am sorry to disappoint you but Western capitalism and democracy is far from being an example to others! Take for example the voting in the USA: There were certain struggles last time and Mr.Bush promised to sove those problems. What happened? He spent some 1 or 2 billions dollars... half a year ago a committee from the OSZE asked for permission to supervise the next election. The answer was NO! The head of the committee sent a letter to the Bush Administration explaining that elections are an issue of the basis of democracy (and the Repuplic too...) and all African nations for example welcome those committees with joy. That is for one reason: THEY HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE AND ARE PROUD OF THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS! There are also similar examples from Europe...
Tell me now, who is near of a perfect form? African nations aiming such a democracy and allow support from others or the West which thinks they have reached the ultimate democracy and at the same time lacks in overthinking and adjust their systems.

An other thing: I am afraid you're right with the following:
"Yes, businesses do love a country down in the dumps, because it's easier to exploit."
Multinationals were never good Samaritans! Their reason for doing buisiness in other countries is to gain money through cheap labour etc. but they have also a good side for a country. Take for example Nestle (sorry that example I know the best...) They do buisiness allover the world without repatriating their profits. They create jobs, and compete with the local industry and push them in a way, and they buy the raw material from local providers - they also bring know-how... All that in the economy of one country without importing or exporting any capital (incl. labour) That is the good side and is important too - also for the Russian economy which still isn't used to total competition.

Talking about the problem of immigration. Regrettably, it is true that citizens from the Near East ( Balkan and Turkey) are known as not being very adeptive. That is a problem! And unfortunatly I don't know any solution for it. The situation in Switzerland is the following: Since the war in former Yugoslavia we got overrun by asylum seekers. As Switzerland is (too) tolerant they often abused the asylum. The result was a hard drift to the right in Swiss politics! The priveleges the asylum seekers have by getting supported from our social system (often without working) angered the Swiss population and right parties used this situation for their propaganda. But still life hasn't changed a lot because of foreigners in my country apart from some details.

I am sorry but my knowledge about the situation with chinese citizens in Russia is not that profound to take part in this discussion.