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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2004, 22:11
scandinavian scandinavian is offline
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About Quality and Individual skill during WW II

In the fighter aviation the quality proved to be much more important than the quantity. And, the quality of the personnel proved to be the most important factor. The following example tells clearly about the importance of the natural skill and good training. The example describes an air combat over the Gulf of Finland after six Finnish Brewsters have attacked on ten Soviet MiG-1s, MiG-3s and Spitfires:

Ilmari Juutilainen, fighter ace,

"In front of, and below me were three MiG fighters. I attacked taking the lead plane as my target. My approach went well and I was just about to come up behind it when - BANG! - my engine RPM went down and my speed started to decrease. The agility of my fighter was, of course, gone. The propeller transmission control had failed at the most critical moment!

It seemed that I was totally at the mercy of the enemy. I reported the status of my plane and asked for help, if anybody could afford to do so.

One of the enemy fighters approached my rear sector. I turned as tightly as I could to keep my eye on him. Now he was moving into a good firing position although a little below me. I quickly rolled my fighter inverted above him. My unexpected maneuver apparently frightened him because he broke off and dove away. Maybe he thought that I only pretended helplessness and was now ready to get behind him. I sighed for relief then rolled back into a normal attitude and tried to climb a little with inadequate engine power control. I was trying to make my way back to base if possible.

I was carefully watching the enemy aircraft well above me expecting them to attack at any moment. Sure enough, a Spitfire came down to investigate me. It came in from my rear sector and above, intending that I should be an easy kill. I tried to look as though I didn`t see him. My plan was to act like a fox against a lynx because I was rather helpless.

When the Spitfire came into a good firing range I made a quick, controlled roll standing heavily on my rudder. My fighter slid heavily sideways and I continued with a hard level turn of about 90 degrees. Of course, during my maneuver the enemy couldn`t keep me in his gunsight, and at the end of the maneuver he was so close that he actually slid past me. I quickly turned back to my original heading and the Spitfire was out in front of me pulling up to the right. My speed was gone, but the range was short, about 70 yards. I aimed carefully and squeezed the trigger. My machine guns worked well, rattling sure and steady. The tracers hit the target like a whip. The result was visible at once. The airplane started to smoke heavily and banked. Almost vertically and slightly inverted it crashed into the sea.

Almost immediately another Spitfire arrived to avenge his comrade. I pushed the throttle open and the engine stopped! It was a really nasty feeling. My good old friend BW-364 had failed me at a critical moment! The enemy plane came in from above and behind at high speed so I made a tight turn under its nose. The Spitfire couldn`t turn with me and, after the failed attack, continued its dive toward Lavansaari.

I turned my airplane toward the Estonian coast intending to make an emergency landing there. Then I noticed that when I didn`t put the throttle in a full power setting, the engine would cough back to life. So, I started again to climb back in the direction of our airplanes above me. During my climb a MiG attacked me at an impossible deflection angle shooting as though he were testing his guns. There was no need even to dodge.

I saw a couple of airplanes crashing into the sea almost simultaneously and a third one, a MiG-1, diving steeply toward the water`s surface but pulling up at the last moment. Now it was my turn to be on the attacking side. The MiG didn`t seem to notice me at all, and pulled up right in front of me. I had only to change my nose position ever so slightly to line up the target in the center of my gunsight. Then I squeezed the trigger and sent my bullets into the target.

I found myself wondering if the enemy remembered that he had forgotten to keep looking around, when he saw the glow of the flame from his engine. The airplane rolled over and went into the sea.

When I again began my climb I found our pilots controlling the area and joined them."

The basic fighter pilot`s skills; the excellent situation awareness, the complete handling of the airplane, shooting accuracy and self confidence, are all visible in the action of the pilot.

Ilmari Juutilainen scored more than 94 victories in two wars, flying Fokker D.XXIs, Brewster B-239s and Messerschmitt Me-109Gs.

The well trained fighter pilots represent a valuable strategic resource for a nation. The most important ability in keeping the nation out of crisis is the control of the airspace, and in that mission the fighter force is decisive. The contemporary Finnish fighter pilots with their Hornet fleet and its ACTR (MUTACTS) air combat training system continue the honorable tradition of the war time aces.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 24th October 2004, 02:59
iGrOCk iGrOCk is offline
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not sure if u made a good point but i disagre that if an airspace defence if good then it will be considered a good defence. every part of an army is an important aspect, not just the airforce. and if the airforce is strong, it dont mean nothing cause there is always a way to shoot it down
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 24th October 2004, 05:25
Prawda_ Prawda_ is offline
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us is the boss now who else wanna f with em gota show color nobody dont that expet terorists...but as country i think n.korea,china on offensive line and syria-iran on a defencice line stand in line..russia is shoting themselfs while training and alkholism and sipilin all low...they sellin weapons to chechens and getting killed by same bullets next day...there always been someone who wanna claim boss of bosses....usa before macedonia,rome,egypt,assyria etc......whos next well se soon what usa do today like irak they do tomorow afistan irak now tomorow iran,syria,n.korea etc itl happen its tradition in history...
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 24th October 2004, 05:54
iGrOCk iGrOCk is offline
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well obviously u didnt read a lot lately and u probably watched too much CNN. Russian dont sell their weapons anymore, they make great militery vehicles/weapons and then sell them for a good amount to countries like China Indie and other , the exchange, not to get some money but to establish a good relationship. the AK's selling was in the past, when Soviet union was in place, and by u saying Russians are selling weapons to cheches, how dumb are you. ye they give weapons to chechen army who fights along with russians to take down the rebels, not to the bad guys. Alcohol ye, people drink, but not the whole country getting their brain damaged.

US like most may think, is not the boss. sure they got great equipment and Tech, so does russians, china, ger, italy etc. look at the war In Iraq, how long did it take for em to take over Iraq......more than a 2 weeks, so much for suck tech eh.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 24th October 2004, 13:57
Sweeper Sweeper is offline
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I Don;t agree with the chechen cause but I don't beleive they had ANYTHING to do with Beslan http://joevialls.altermedia.info/mya...slanpsyop.html
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 25th October 2004, 08:28
Soviet78 Soviet78 is offline
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"Does anyone plan on invading China, Russia, or the US? If so, they have a long road ahead. Even in an insane nuclear showdown, what would the attacking nation do after the missles fly?"

That's a very good point. Nuclear weapons have certainly changed the way of the world.

"What does that leave?...Iran...North Korea?"

That's a good point too: that the only nations worth attacking today are those weak and incapable of defending themselves, and that don't raise too much concern from the international community.


"The nutcase in control of North Korea might start a war that could end up killing millions, but I doubt he would get any support from anyone in the area."

Yes, North Korea is an embaressment. It's a shame they call themselves communist.

"I just don't see the major powers of the world plotting against each other as a full time obsession anymore (well, maybe France does, but that's their way)."

That's funny.


"I can almost bet that the inane ramblings of a rabbid, drooling, card carrying leftist are scribbled on the board somewhere."

Oh, come now voyager, it's not like there aren't any crazy right wing people writing the same sorts of garbage.


sweeper:

"Oh I think we're headed STRAIT for WW3 if you ask me"

Not this again.


andy-j1:

"The UK has a small army of just over 100 000 men but they are all highly motivated professionals.The regimental system gives them an esprit de corps that most other armies lack and because the various regiments are trained in specific skills such as arctic,desert and jungle warfare they are probably the most versatile army in the world.They are also the only army in the world to have almost continual combat experience since WWII everywhere from Korea and Malaysia to Northern Ireland.Their professionalism and motivation was proved in the Falklands war where in several set piece battles 500 or so British marines and paratroopers attacked and defeated several thousand well dug in Argentinians.They fought seven or eight battles during the conflict and all of them were British victories."

That's very interesting. Would you say that they're better (in terms of quality if not quantity) than the Americans?


igrock:

"i disagre that if an airspace defence if good then it will be considered a good defence. every part of an army is an important aspect, not just the airforce. and if the airforce is strong, it dont mean nothing cause there is always a way to shoot it down"

Air defense is extremely important (as we've seen in the war in Iraq. To break a country, you have to destroy it from the air first, and then crush it on the ground. The Soviets had some very strong air defenses, as far as I know (my knowledge is somewhat limited though). I recall that air defense divisions, consisting of shilkas (anti-helicopter rapid machine guns on tank chasis) and rombs (mobile surface to air missile launchers) travelled alongside the tank and motorized divisions. A lot of analysts here in Russia have looked at the Iraq war wearily. But I must (with my limited knowledge) bring to your attention that the Iraqis had nowhere as good air defences as Russia does (even after a big reduction in power after the collapse of the USSR), and so, America launching a conventional war with Russia (hypothetically) would be much more difficult.

igrock:

"but not the whole country getting their brain damaged"

Well let me tell you otherwise, especially among youths.


"u saying Russians are selling weapons to cheches, how dumb are you"

We must all remember that there are people in the world who have no stronger reward than money (there's a lot of people like that actually). And there have been some cases of Russians (in the media) selling weapons, and weapons components to the Chechen terrorists, including (scarily) nuclear weapons components.


prawda_

"russia is shoting themselfs while training and alkholism and sipilin all low...they sellin weapons to chechens and getting killed by same bullets next day..."

Sad, but true.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 25th October 2004, 08:32
Chechen-Rebel Chechen-Rebel is offline
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1.US
2.Japan
3.China
4.UK
5.Germany


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