The Manifest by Marx and Engel.

[Nonson]

A further offering by the Buddha: _____________________________________________ I. The Noble Truth of Suffering

D.22

What, now, is the Noble Truth of Suffering?

Birth is suffering; Decay is suffering; Death is suffering; Sorrow, Lamentation, Pain, Grief, and Despair are suffering; not to get what one desires, is suffering; in short: the Five Groups of Existence are suffering.

What, now, is Birth? The birth of beings belonging to this or that order of beings, their being born, their conception and springing into existence, the manifestation of the Groups of Existence, the arising of sense activity: this is called birth.

And what is Decay? The decay of beings belonging to this or that order of beings; their becoming aged, frail, grey, and wrinkled; the failing of their vital force, the wearing out of the senses: this is called decay.

And what is Death? The departing and vanishing of beings out of this or that order of beings. their destruction, disappearance, death, the completion of their life-period, dissolution of the Groups of Existence, the discarding of the body: this is called death.

And what is Sorrow? The sorrow arising through this or that loss or misfortune which one encounters, the worrying oneself, the state of being alarmed, inward sorrow, inward woe: this is called sorrow.

And what is Lamentation? Whatsoever, through this or that loss or misfortune which befalls one, is wail and lament, wailing and lamenting, the state of woe and lamentation: this is called lamentation.

And what is Pain? The bodily pain and unpleasantness, the painful and unpleasant feeling produced by bodily impression: this is called pain.

And what is Grief? The mental pain and unpleasantness, the painful and unpleasant feeling produced by mental impression: this is called grief.

And what is Despair? Distress and despair arising through this or that loss or misfortune which one encounters: distressfulness, and desperation: this is called despair.

And what is the `Suffering of not getting what one desires'? To beings subject to birth there comes the desire; `O, that we were not subject to birth! O, that no new birth was before us!' Subject to decay, disease, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair, the desire comes to them: `O, that we were not subject to these things! O, that these things were not before us!' But this cannot be got by mere desiring; and not to get what one desires, is suffering.

Dear Americanized!
You´re right. How did you do that?.
By the way, are you a russian or american?
The next meant "Would you go to bed with me?".
Nice, that someone understand it! Pretty cool, actually!
Well, Nonson, have you read the entire Manifest? It seems like!
To Americanized.....

Here is one more.

"Ja lublu pivor" Translate it!

Well, gotta go, see ´ya all later!

[Jiimmi]

Proletarians, get up, wake up, rise, unite.
We want to crush the bourgeosy.

[Octavio]

The 'bourgeoisie' is a term needing revision in a developed economy. Any worker who has an individual retirement account is part of the 'bourgeoisie' (nominally the 'exploitative' middle class), since that worker is a shareholder and profit-taker. In fact the stock market in the United States has been utterly transformed by mutual funds, etc. A worker making a modest income, but who placed less than 10% of his earnings into an IRA for the last 20 years or so would now be quite well off, a 'rich capitalist owner.'

The term 'proletariat'(nominally an industrial wage-earner) is also dated. 'Proles' in the USA have little to do with serious industry (durable goods, electronics, etc.). Perhaps immigrants in clothing manufacturing sweatshops might have the anachronistic label. But for the most part today's proles are the 'working poor,' with skill levels beneath industrial work, hardly the social sector to which a 'dictatorship' should be granted.


Octavio

[Nonson]

Octavio, the primary definition of proletariat is: the lowest social or economic class of a community. Thus, by necessity, the laboring class. _____________________________________________ While it is true that much emphasis was placed on the industrial worker by Marx, it is not reasonable to assert that he excluded all wage slaves from his study. _____________________________________________ The proletariat of today is to be found in MacDonalds, UPS, Fedex, major motel and hotel chains, and sanitation. There are tens of millions of them worldwide. They are at the very bottom of the pay scale, and this in itself makes them a real threat.

[s_aradabulof]

Dear Jiimmi constitution of the Communism was (one) and it was it everywhere, but please tell me who was following it? I am sure you know what did I mean about the Modern Communism! I believe Marxism and Leninism was a grate idea, not because it was against Capitalism, just for better life, but unfortunately most of the leaders of Communist Countries as I mentioned before did thinking about them selves, they wasn’t care about people, and this is a result of that game.


With Regard


s.aradabulof.

[Octavio]

Nonson,

I accept that there can be a broad interpretation of a "proletarian" class, and the "wage slaves" to whom you have referred might be a kind of "lumpen" proletariat (if we are to stick to these anachronisms). But Marx was interested in which class must take power as the core dynamic policy-making and governing class. Therefore the abilities and the constructive functions possessed by the proletarian class were of paramount interest.

Without an understanding by that class of the nuts and bolts of the means of production, that class was not capable of anything more than disruptiveness, which could be quelled by police.

The millions of people at the bottom of the wage pyramid (mostly residing in the "Third World") are too unskilled and heterogeneous to amount to an articulate class. "Lumpen" is really too pejorative; "amorphous" is a better qualifier. Therefore there is no threat as you have implied, just many local labor issues to confront piecemeal.

As I see it, the class in which Marx would take a chief interest today would be the career professionals interacting with corporate cultures. This interaction is a locus for defining approaches to hot issues.

Octavio