The Manifest by Marx and Engel.

[Octavio]

Hi Woland.

You know, I like Nietzsche, but not in terms of social engineering. Nietzsche was a poet more than a philosopher, and his aphorisms relate more to the development of an individual's discriminating contempt than to a robust social order.

Your point of contention has been with the term 'elite.' I think I am in full agreement with your dislike for British snobbery and for the Russian social channels defined by "Blat." As I use the term, an 'elite' is simply a trained corps with abilities to accomplish specialized professional work to the highest standards.

One of the things I hate most about "corporate culture" (a favorite topic of mine) is the fact that rule-and-process procedure is supplanted sometimes completely by internal politics -- a system of personal loyalties and biases. Since I hold to ideas along the lines of a utilitarian meritocracy, I find this to be really irritating.

I do think that interdisciplinary projects which focus the combined force of several highly developed mental disciplines on problems of great social concern are a kind of cellular basis for global organization. This has nothing to do with rapaciousness or unfair privilege.

Octavio

[Octavio]

Hi Ronbo.

As I understand it, you are a professional soldier (perhaps retired). I respect the work you did or are doing to defend the interests of the United States. Your service in the military (underpaid to my mind) stands by itself as something to honor.

On this BB we can't focus on merely US interests, and Russian affairs are supposed to be the topic, liberally interpreted. With that in mind I will take up your mention of Ayn Rand, since she was born a Russian.

Rand's philosophy in a nutshell:

1. Metaphysics: Objective Reality
2. Epistemology: Reason
3. Ethics: Self-interest
4. Politics: Capitalism


I won't try to address 1, 2, or 4; just 3.

Consider at least a supplemental alternative idea:

Utilitarianism is a normative ethical theory that places the locus of right and wrong solely on the outcomes (consequences) of choosing one action/policy over other actions/policies. As such, it moves beyond the scope of one's own interests and takes into account the interests of others.


Octavio

[Dr_Woland]

>> This has nothing to do with rapaciousness or unfair privilege. <<

Thank you for confirming that :-)

Dr W.

[Ronald_Barbour]

Dear Octavio:

Thanks for the prompt and intelligent response!

Yes, I am a retired former professional soldier (1966 to 1986, Military Intelligence, MOS 98J - Electronic Warfare), and I have had tours of duty In Europe, Asia, Africa, Alaska and various islands in the Pacific to include the Philippines.

In regards to the pay scale - it starts at a very low rate, but as your rank increases so does the check. Also, your room, board and travel expenses are picked up by the government. When these factors are taken into account your pay works out to be about average with a civilian counterpart with the same experience and education. Finally, there are fringe benefits like free college tuition when you take courses during active duty and the G.I. bill after you get out.

Of course, I am speaking about the way things were 15 years ago, for example, the G.I. bill in regards to college education has been changed. Did I mention the reenlistment bonus? In 1970 when I re-upped for the first time I received $10,000 tax free! This was yesterday's buck, which is worth more than today's dollar. I put most of this cash in the stock market.

In the military - as is true in civilian life - some folks are just not good managers of their money and live pay check to pay check. In contrast, I have always had a savings account in or out of the service.

In regards to Russia's Alice Rosenbaum - who became Ayn Rand - when she moved to America in 1925 - I do not agree with her in reference to God - I think that God exists and I have seen much in my 52 years of life on earth to reinforcement this opinion. I do, however, have the utmost respect and admiration for 95% of the rest of her philosophy, especially her defense of capitalism in CAPITALISM: THE UNKNOWN IDEAL.

I am impressed that you neatly summarized Rand's philosophy of Objectivism the same way she did when challenged to do so by a college student at one of her lectures: "In Metaphysics: Objective Reality; in Epistemology: Reason; in Ethics: Self-Interest; in Politcs: Capitalism."

In reference to Self-Interest. My understanding of Rand on this subject is that all individuals should have the advancement of their own self-interest as a primary focus in life. However, this does give anyone the right to destroy other human beings or use them as a means to your end. The reality based use of self-interest is to respect other people and trade value for value - like in the marketplace - where one exchanges money for goods. In regards to personal relationships- a man may value the love of his wife so much that he would die for her, or his children, the product of that love, rather than see her or them come to harm.

In contrast, the Nietzschean views himself as a superior person who lets nothing get in his way, and often uses people as a means to his ends. An excellent contemporary example of a Nietzschean is our own Grand&Glorious President Bubba Bill Clinton - the draft dodging Oxford nerd - who has a track record of destroying people and breaking laws in his quest for a socialist America. I could mention other famous Nietzscheans: Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Castro.....

I hope I answered you questions. I think that my philosophy is neo-Thomistic. My late wife pointed out that in ATLAS SHRUGGED Rand had created as a character a Thomistic priest - but later rejected him because she believed that her readers would not have believed that such a person could really exist.

Well, I do.

Sincerely, Ronbo

[Ronald_Barbour]

Dear Octavio:

Speaking of Bubba Bill - It has just been announced that Independent Counsel Robert Ray will make a decision within days or weeks after Clinton leaves office whether or not he will be indicted in the Lewinsky affair.

Details:

http:/www.drudgereport.com

Sincerely, Ronbo

[JimmiS]

Well, helloooo!!

What happened to this fine topic? It seems everything this topic stands for, has vanished and gone for good!
I´m angry, and I wanna.......just kidding.

I´ve just about almost read the Manifesto.
So now, let me answer you some questions;

How many inhere, on this topic goes for the proletarian power, and how many goes fot the capitalistic bourgesey?


-->By the rest, nice to have you back, George W Bush, soon you are gone again--< This sentence was dedicated to all naive, fascistic, KKK-supporting americans, who voted for this duo-moraled wannabe politician. Goes for deathsentence, but not for abortian!! Well, guess it´s okay, his old man was president, so why should´nt he? Nepotism???!

Se ´ya all