Putin in NewDelhi & Musharraf in New York-- Co-incidence?

[Serdiuk]

Wow, take it easy there Voyager !
What I mean was that I want the US to start listening to Russia again, and simply to realize that the US cannot push the world around as much as it likes, simply because it's by far the most powerful. Russia I see as the country with the largest potential, possibly China as well. Anyhow, you can't that the US hasn't been spreading a good deal of suffering around the world lately, can you ?
The situation in Iraq is a good example of the US ignoring the UN as well as Russia's opinion on them backing off.
The people in Iraq are going to have a worse hell than they experienced during the rule of Saddam now, simply because there is NO law and order. They are constantly under threat from unknown soruces and unknown quantities of them.
What happened to the promised aid for Afghanistan ? Why aren't the people in Afghanistan so much better off ? They do not seem so pleased that the US came and bombed the crap out of their country, and didn't even reach their real goal, Mr. Bin Laden.
Do you not think that there should be a second superpower to restore balance ?
Or do you want the "Anti-Totalitarian" USA to continue to help the "less fortunate" with bombs and lies ?

P.S. I don't even like Moores movies.

[Voyager13b]

Hmmm.. I think the average Afghani is much better off today than yesterday. I also think that Iraq is well on it's way to becoming a free society under law. There is no magic bullet in the arsenal of democracy. Removing a dictator and his kind takes a great deal of time, effort, and loss of life. I have no doubt that Iraq will end up determining it's own future under law, but it takes a great deal of time and sacrifice to make it happen. Too bad for Iraq that you don't support the effort.

Reasonable ideals cross all political boundries. I pray for Russia to both regain it's global political clout, as well as become a society and economy that makes the world green with envy. Then again, I don't enjoy the thought of Russia becoming an antagonist of the US just because it seems to be Russia's destiny in the minds of anti American activists.

Friends are welcome to disagree on any issue, as dialog can change minds, and alter the course of history in time. For two great nations to be patently against each other, no matter what the issue at hand, is counterproductive to human growth, as any fine idea coming from one camp will be rejected by the other out of hand.

A bipolar world is nonsense. The concept of right and wrong has no party affiliation, and should be championed by all great nations. If the details are disputed by one nation or another, they should be discussed as peers seeking the same overall goal for humanity, and not as fundemental boulders in the path of cooperation.

In the long run, I see Russia and the US as close partners, and not as sacrificial lambs in the "good vs evil" political battle. Despite the rantings of Michael Moore, both nations are striving for the same goal, and there isn't a bonus to be awarded for the nation that reaches that goal first. Once again, it is a team effort, and I think that Russia and the US make a pretty good team when they focus on tomorrow, rather than yesterday.


Voyager

[SanskyToTheRescue]

Originally posted by Robocop
heres another reason to think http://www.robodork.peforms.in.donkey.shows.com

Robodork, get a life, possibly grow a pair, then ask the Wizard for a new brain while you're at it.

[Robocop]

NON of you have and can prove what I posted up to be incorrect, the only solution is for you to just say Robo this Robo that, HAHAHAH your ALL brainwashed especially this Voyager13 a simply check on Russian and U.S. News will tell that Putin who I don't like did go to Cuba and for some reason U.S. didn't want Venezwala to buy MiG29's can you pro U.S. did not tell Venazwala not to buy MiG29's why would U.S. all of a sudden careuhhmmmm? mybe it WAS MiG29 SMT's with SS-22's on em huuu?

[Serdiuk]

Originally posted by Voyager13b
Hmmm.. I think the average Afghani is much better off today than yesterday. I also think that Iraq is well on it's way to becoming a free society under law. There is no magic bullet in the arsenal of democracy. Removing a dictator and his kind takes a great deal of time, effort, and loss of life. I have no doubt that Iraq will end up determining it's own future under law, but it takes a great deal of time and sacrifice to make it happen. Too bad for Iraq that you don't support the effort.

Reasonable ideals cross all political boundries. I pray for Russia to both regain it's global political clout, as well as become a society and economy that makes the world green with envy. Then again, I don't enjoy the thought of Russia becoming an antagonist of the US just because it seems to be Russia's destiny in the minds of anti American activists.

Friends are welcome to disagree on any issue, as dialog can change minds, and alter the course of history in time. For two great nations to be patently against each other, no matter what the issue at hand, is counterproductive to human growth, as any fine idea coming from one camp will be rejected by the other out of hand.

A bipolar world is nonsense. The concept of right and wrong has no party affiliation, and should be championed by all great nations. If the details are disputed by one nation or another, they should be discussed as peers seeking the same overall goal for humanity, and not as fundemental boulders in the path of cooperation.

In the long run, I see Russia and the US as close partners, and not as sacrificial lambs in the "good vs evil" political battle. Despite the rantings of Michael Moore, both nations are striving for the same goal, and there isn't a bonus to be awarded for the nation that reaches that goal first. Once again, it is a team effort, and I think that Russia and the US make a pretty good team when they focus on tomorrow, rather than yesterday.


Voyager

We can allways hope for the best. I would like to see America and Russia as partners, rather than enemies. It's better they focus on being constructive rather than new ways of being destructive. But seeing that this is quite opposite to human nature, it's highly unlikely. No matter what, something or something will come in the way.
I am still hopeful for the future of the world.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally posted by Voyager13b
What role would your fantasy offer Russia? Would Russia "fix" the Ivory Coast situation. Would Russia "fix" the growing faith derived tensions in western Europe? Would Russia "fix" the growing threat in Iran, and North Korea? How about Iraq? How would the "new Russia", as you imagine it, "fix" those situations?


Russia won't even try to fix such problems and thus everyone will be free to choose his future. Many problems that you mentioned, Voyager, were caused by previous attempts to fix something. For example Iraq: Saddam once was supported by US. You needed him to fight Iran. Muslim fundamentalist regimes in Iran and previously in Afghanistan were brought to life as opposition to various foriegn-backed regimes installed during last century.

West fixes everything everywhere since 19 century. Has world become safer?


How about the tension building to the south of Russia? How would Putin "fix" that problem if he arrived home from his meeting as a "superpower" capable of forcing the US to bend to his will without discussion?

Tension at the south is consequence of just another western "fixing". When SU was "fixing" the area, it was peaceful. From that point of view, question is pointless.

[Voyager13b]

Alex,

My point was not to condemn Russia. Both Russia and the US have their hands dirty with failed global policies over the last century. Even then, I think a "hands on approach" is needed to prevent the common enemy of fanatical terrorism from displacing the "good life" that most modern civilizations aim for.

We can argue the details as time passes, but meanwhile, it irks me when people present Russia as the ultimate "anti-America" in the same manner that Japanese films portray Godzilla as a beast that can be summoned to do their bidding against a new invading monster from time to time, and then cast it back into the sea until they need him again. Most such remarks are driven by ideology, rather than by even a basic understanding of Russia itself, or the fact that it's 150 or so million people look forward to enjoying their short time on Earth with as much potential for a happy life as anyone else on the globe.

Russia is a nation, not an animal to be conjured up at will by the disgruntled left, only to be kept on a leash. Russian people that I have met when I visit the country have the same desires, hopes, and dreams as American people. They do not seek a different goal, and they do not like the idea of being in the "pocket" of any one global group. They are Russians, not pawns.

Russia and America can argue the details, and bully each other along the entire way, but that is no different than what happens every day when ideas clash in Congress, or in Duma. Without strong arguments, a real consensus cannot be formed. In the case of Russia and the US, it is important to understand that both peoples are striving for the same thing in life, and that the best way to attain that goal is to make progress together, even if each nation collects a few "black eyes" along the way.

That was the motivation for my remarks. Russians and Americans all want to walk safe streets, drink clean water, have quality food available, good jobs, and become the the very best they can, if it suits their personality. Most important, both nations wish that future generations will fare better than the last. That is a lot of common ground, and even though history is a powerfull force, it is there to tell us what happened in the past, and not what must happen in the future. Again, Russia is not a "Godzilla" beast under the control of outside forces. Russia is a community of more than 150 million people who deserve to see their labor, tax investments, and international relationships improve their lives, rather than being turned into an unsupported fortress against a sister nation that embraces the same life goals at the behest of a sorry group of international pessimists.

Voyager