Yanukovich the Next Russian President?

[Michal_PL]

Originally posted by mikeaverko
Not the same Zbig. Poles and Russians felt togetherness way back in 1410. Gomulka and Brzehnev were fellow Commies.

Russia and Ukraine continue to have a very much open border.

Brezhnev didn't like Gomulka because Gomulka used to be quite independent leader.in contrary to general Jaruzelski who was soviet agent what finally was revealed by Polish media few weeks ago.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Michal_PL

Brezhnev didn't like Gomulka because Gomulka used to be quite independent leader.in contrary to general Jaruzelski who was soviet agent what finally was revealed by Polish media few weeks ago.

How sad Michal you do not know that comrade Gomulka was parachuted down the Polish territory directly from Moscow in 1943!
In fact, both leaders desperately tried to keep some margin of Polish independence from the Soviet Union. Both succeded to some degree. Jaruzelski is a man of considerably higher profile than Lukashenka-like comrade Wieslaw. The doubtful revelation concerning Jaruzelski is a part of recent witch hunt in Poland before the upcoming parliamentary and presidential elections.

[mikeaverko]

Orange oligarchs & Yanukovych:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@1....77473289/7756

[Michal_PL]

Originally posted by Zbyszek

How sad Michal you do not know that comrade Gomulka was parachuted down the Polish territory directly from Moscow in 1943!
In fact, both leaders desperately tried to keep some margin of Polish independence from the Soviet Union. Both succeded to some degree. Jaruzelski is a man of considerably higher profile than Lukashenka-like comrade Wieslaw. The doubtful revelation concerning Jaruzelski is a part of recent witch hunt in Poland before the upcoming parliamentary and presidential elections.

you're wrong Zbyszek.Gomulka wasn't parachuted down Poland in 1941.he spent the war in Poland in contrary to Wasilewska,Bierut and others..
Jaruzelski was a soviet agent just like Moczar.they influenced some events in Poland in the late 60s.Antisemitic cleansing in Polish army in 1967 was organized by Jaruzelski and antisemitic campaign in march '68 was started by Moczar.Both initiatives were made up by Kremlin to blacken antirussian moods in Polish society and blame Jewish origin commies responsible for stalinist crimes.
Gomulka opposed both actions but he couldn't do anything against Kremlin will.

Jaruzelski is undoubtedly an overestimated man.he was an ordinary agent not statesman.he couldn't go so far with his aristocratic origin in communist country.in 1956 he protested against departure of Russian military advisors like Rokossowski.
Besides historians made a TV program in which they proved that war state in Poland wasn't caused by threat of Russian agression.Jaruzelski proclaimed it only because he wanted to hold the power.and now he gets decorated by Putin.everything is so clear!

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Michal_PL
....
you're wrong Zbyszek.Gomulka wasn't parachuted down Poland in 1941.he spent the war in Poland in contrary to Wasilewska,Bierut and others..
Jaruzelski was a soviet agent just like Moczar.they influenced some events in Poland in the late 60s.Antisemitic cleansing in Polish army in 1967 was organized by Jaruzelski and antisemitic campaign in march '68 was started by Moczar.Both initiatives were made up by Kremlin to blacken antirussian moods in Polish society and blame Jewish origin commies responsible for stalinist crimes.
Gomulka opposed both actions but he couldn't do anything against Kremlin will.

Jaruzelski is undoubtedly an overestimated man.he was an ordinary agent not statesman.he couldn't go so far with his aristocratic origin in communist country.in 1956 he protested against departure of Russian military advisors like Rokossowski.
Besides historians made a TV program in which they proved that war state in Poland wasn't caused by threat of Russian agression.Jaruzelski proclaimed it only because he wanted to hold the power.and now he gets decorated by Putin.everything is so clear! [/b]

War in Poland began in 1939 but for the Soviet union it was 1941.
Michal, Gomulka was a communist politruk while Jaruzelski was a soldier. It is not my intention to disavow Gomulka - he had his brighter points but Jaruzelski achieved something Gomulka could not or rather not had in mind - a peaceful, violence-free negotiations with the opposition in communist Poland. As to his prachuting - I once read about it but maybe I confused the facts. I will try to check it. Anyway Gomulka was shamefully simplistic for a stateman. You can listen to some of his historic speeches, which made me feel ashamed as a Pole.
http://polskaludowa.com/index.htm
I am still not sure about recent accusations against Jaruzelski - they awkwardly coincide with his last visit in Moscow and his meeting with Soviet war veterans.

Did you know about brainwashing training of Gomulka in Moscow in the top-Stalinist thirties?


My question to Alex and other Russian discussion partners concerning Lew Gumilow is still of interest to me. Misha is somehow silent about it. Marita, maybe you could help me?

[Edited by Zbyszek on 9th July 2005 at 02:20]

[Michal_PL]

I'd say like that-Jaruzelski was smarter than Gomulka,but straight Gomulka was more honest and patriotic if it's a good description for a commie.Jaruzelski was a cynic player.all he has done was done for Moscow.Probably that even ,,okragly stol'' was KGB instruction.