How majority of Russians see the role of Russia today?

[princessflower]

So the anarchists of the US are planning on tyranting and pirating out Spain next and His Magisty the king of spain.They are planning a freedom plan for Spain maybe make up some lies about how Spain is mis treating their own people and they need human rights and they are sending a team to find out how their freedom is denied.

Protect Spain from anarchys tax benifisharies.
They took russia Indonesia and Spain is next the US senate is going to try and take over Spain!

I think he should man his troops and everyone should be prepaired for spain to be invaded by the american human rights activists.

Prepare Spain. The monarchy for Spain always Anarchy will never win there Prepare spian! You guys wat to go? These are the same people that started the cold war.Spian is next!

[Dan26]

[quote]Originally posted by MichaelB_PL

Simply, the ethnic countries mentioned above (and others) were occupied and ruled by Moscow, and generally being colonised with russification policies and settlement of russian colonists.

As part of Bolshevik's politics many nations were given right for some native-land (before it was a single russian empire). My country, Kyrgyzstan, was given autonomy (same as Lithuania, Ukrain, Kazakstan, ..) because it wasn't invaded by the russians - it joined russian empire seeking protection from enemies. Chechnya was conquerred, and it wasn't independent country. After SU broke up all member countries of the union became independent. You may interpret history whatever way you wish, but the outcome was that all the lands that were conquered by russian empire are now Russian Federation. All the lands that joined (not directly conquerred) are now independent.

For example. there's a lot of noice - many people in russia do not agree that Krim should go to Ukraine (not only in russia, but in krim itself) since it was conquered by russia. At the same time I didn't hear anything that russians don't like that *their* lands are now independent countries (such as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Ukrain, Georgia,...)

As you can, see, Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia,Belarus and a big part of today Ukraine and Poland were occupied and were considered part of Russia in the 1900.(so was Finland, which is not shown however)

May be I'm not right but I think at that times there weren't clear borders as we have now - every conflic etc was changing bordering lands. Probably russia was funding opposition (comunist parties at later times)or something, and latter they joined the camp (much like the Us does now around the world, but their activities don't reflect their map)

Later during the interwar period between the WWI and WII,except Ukraine and Belarus, these countries regained independence.

During WWII however, Soviets(Russians) invaded attacked all of the independent countries from that group and ultimatively only Poland and Finland regained independence, although both lost territories with majority with respectively Polish and Finnish ethnic population,which were taken by the Soviet Union.

You should be happy and thankful (guess to whom), WWII could've change it so that Poland didn't exist today.

Meanwhile, the Soviet Union also took a colony from the defeated Germany- the territory of Konigsberg, called "Kaliningrad" by the Russians.
You can see it as the small green territory between Lithuania and Poland- before the war, there were hardly any Russians there... after the war, the German inhabitants were resettled and Konigsberg/Kaliningrad was populated with colonists from Soviet Union.

What do you mean ..called "Kaliningrad" by the Russians...? it's name IS Kaliningrad. You may also say "called "New York" by the americans..." - when I was in amsterdam I saw "New Amsterdam" in airport, but couldn't believe my eyes
Soviet Union didn't take colonies - this land was annexed and GIVEN to the SU (potsdame conference), perhaps you feel that Poland has more right to it?

Kaliningrad was annexed land, and it was completely up to the SU what to do with it - to fix roads and schools and as sign of a good will give it back to germany or repopulate it. Same with Gdan'sk in eastern Prussia. I may copy your words and replace Russian with Polish and Konigsberg/Kaliningrad with Danzig/Gdansk, but I don't want to waste web ink. It won't have much sense. What you say about Kaliningrad seems rather something else than care for native german lands...

After the fall of the Soviet Union,Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia,Belarus and Ukraine regained independence, but Poland and Finland did't regain lands which were ethnically Polish/Finnish,which were now populated with respectively Lithunian and Russian newcomers.

Also, the territory of Konigsberg/Kaliningrad is today territory of Russia,despite lack of ANY russian historical claim to this land. (as you can see examining historical maps of Europe)

Poland has no historical claim to eastern Prussia also. Native americans have historical claims to the lands where canada/us is now, so what? You plainly sound as a person who hates russians and worries for historically german lands more than the germans themselves.
There are laws, diplomacy etc. that change countries despite historical claims. Germany was a defeated aggressor.

Well, I think it depends- for example Chechnya is ethnically foreign country conducting armed fight to break up from Russia...

You know nothing about Chechnya (aside from tons of bull**** you are being fed everyday from your polish tv and newspapers, don't start religious war about that please - I do not imply that there's less crap in out media coverage). I guarantee you that most of the population (that was born in chechnya, including chechens, georgians, osetins, russians) will vote against independent islamic state where rules of shariate replace human rights. If you agree with my last sentence, then please fix the phrase "Chechnya is .. conducting armed fight to break up from Russia"

it's also quitely likely that Konigsberg/Kaliningrad will break apart one day, somewhat like US declared independence from Britain, despite being virtually the same nation in theory.
...

I'm agree that there's a chance that Chechnya will break off some day, but not Kaliningrad. I'm sure that your grand-grand-... children hudreds of years from now will be surprised to learn at school that Kaliningrad is historically a famous german city...

[Dan26]

Originally posted by MichaelB_PL

I cannot not notice the characteristic Russian moral nihilism. Aren't you guys supposed to be (Orthodox) Christians?

Michael

Ortodox sounds like crazy believers, but infact russian church (that was kept down under bolsheviks) is not comparable to what you have in poland. It's like 70% of the population in poland visit church regulary vs 5% in Russia
Only 5% could be called regular visitors ... so they are no way supposed to be orthodox or something...

From reading the guy's posts, it sounds more like he loves his motherland...


Could you please comment on "..characteristic Russian moral nihilism..". What are the classifications you have for other nations in poland?

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally posted by MichaelB_PL

Chechnya? Excuse me, but how many men did in fact invade Russia(Dagestan)? More or less than a batallion?
...
How many men invaded Russia at that point? More or less than 1000?


Small or not - it's still an invasion. How would you call it, if Russian armed batallion went "for a walk" through Polish border and "stayed for the rest" in some of your villages? You would call it invasion. Now go to hell with your double standarts.



Do you know what would be the pros and cons of blockading Chechnya vs invading it? Do you know the pros and cons?


Actually it would be better just to close borders, I mean walls, pillboxes etc, shoot everybody who comes close to the wall, do not let anybody in or out, shoot down any plane above the place. But in this case, you would be even more angry with our inhuman policy of making concentration camp of the whole region.

The problem whatever we do is turned against us by types like you. You condemn any our action. Go on, shake the air. We don't care.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally posted by MichaelB_PL
What genocide? Something tells me it's that sort of genocide like the German mass murder of Poles in Katyn, IE non-existant fabricated tale.

It's sort of genocide like Albanians murdered Serbs in kosovo or Azeris murdered Armenians in Baku. Doesn't fit western worldview, so they do not write much about it. But thousand of victims and survivors cry for revenge.


It would be like asking families of Nazi soldiers occupying Poland what do they think about Poland.

Wrong. People just were born, lived and worked there, then some were killed by chechens, others fled away. They weren't invaders. Chechnya is their homeland as well.

Same about current Russian Federation...

Not the same. As I showed already, Russians are majority in almost every region of RF and, surprisigly, they do not want these regions to go anywhere.

[MichaelB_PL]

[quote]Originally posted by Dan26
[b][quote]Originally posted by MichaelB_PL

Simply, the ethnic countries mentioned above (and others) were occupied and ruled by Moscow, and generally being colonised with russification policies and settlement of russian colonists.

As part of Bolshevik's politics many nations were given right for some native-land (before it was a single russian empire). My country, Kyrgyzstan, was given autonomy (same as Lithuania, Ukrain, Kazakstan, ..) because it wasn't invaded by the russians - it joined russian empire seeking protection from enemies.

You should be happy and thankful (guess to whom), WWII could've change it so that Poland didn't exist today.

Actually I'm sort of quasi-thankful to the Soviet Union for defeating Nazi Germany,but I write "sort of quasi-thankful" because as I said Soviet Union helped Nazis get into power and it invaded my country in alliance with Hitler.

It's like two bandits would break into your house and then they would have a fight between themselves.

Soviet Union didn't take colonies - this land was annexed and GIVEN to the SU (potsdame conference), perhaps you feel that Poland has more right to it?

Not necessarily,I would be fully happy if Lithuania would take it or if it would become a free city.

Poland has no historical claim to eastern Prussia also. Native americans have historical claims to the lands where canada/us is now, so what? You plainly sound as a person who hates russians and worries for historically german lands more than the germans themselves.

Yes, I guess I do hate Russians(not that I think it's very hard).
I don't worry for German right to land (funny that I'm being perceived as such)- it's more like I'd like Konigsber/Kaliningrad to be not Russian, so we would't border with Russia.

You know nothing about Chechnya (aside from tons of bull**** you are being fed everyday from your polish tv and newspapers, don't start religious war about that please - I do not imply that there's less crap in out media coverage).

I see Chechnya exactly like Poland,Lithuania,Finland, etc in the past- ethnically non-Russian land occupied by Russians- what's wrong with that view?

So...what would I have to do to know more about Chechnya?

I guarantee you that most of the population (that was born in chechnya, including chechens, georgians, osetins, russians) will vote against independent islamic state where rules of shariate replace human rights.

Not that I'm a fan of shariate, but what human rights are there under with the RF forces occupying the country?

I think that the whole 'shariate' issue is mostly a Moscow propaganda tool. There are many Islamic countries in the world and most of them are not hell-holes.

I'm agree that there's a chance that Chechnya will break off some day, but not Kaliningrad.

AFAIK it's quite likely to be opposite,as surprising as it sounds.
This is not based upon solid info, might be wrong:

AFAIK generally Russians living in the Kaliningrad and the Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia are more interested in living in countries organised like Poland or L/L/E then in living in a country with state-of-affairs like Russian Federation.

For example I've read about Latvia Russians who showed a suprising paradox- from one side they said they feel (ethnically) opressed in Latvia...from the other, they said they don't want to move to Russia and they do NOT understand themselves very well with Russians from the RF.

About Kaliningrad Russians,I've heard that the surrounding EU countries of Poland and Lithuania,just like the rest of the EU, are seem more of a model to follow for the Kaliningraders than Russia is, and many of them would prefer being an independent EU-member country than a part of the RF.

Example of something which is likely a ["orange"] rising trend:
http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=549345


Michael

[MichaelB_PL]

Originally posted by Dan26

Ortodox sounds like crazy believers, but infact russian church (that was kept down under bolsheviks) is not comparable to what you have in poland. It's like 70% of the population in poland visit church regulary vs 5% in Russia
Only 5% could be called regular visitors ... so they are no way supposed to be orthodox or something...

I see, it's a pity, it would be better if more people would be active believers [in both countries].

Could you please comment on "..characteristic Russian moral nihilism..". What are the classifications you have for other nations in poland?

In this aspect, in Poland it is generally believed that Russians are generally 'darwinistically' morally nihilistic-that is, that they believe that "might makes right" and they do not have a authentic belief in any kind of morality.

Generally the classifications of other nations are not so much negative, Russians and Ukrainians had the most negative ones, but the Ukrainian one changed to neutral or even positive one lately.


Michael