Russia's not a democracy?

[english-teacher]

Read this:
Newsweek: Russia = State of Hate

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State of Hate
Russia goes on a neonationalist binge, apparently with the Kremlin's blessing. The question is, why?

By Owen Matthews and Anna Nemtsova
Newsweek International

Nov. 6, 2006 issue - Russia is becoming an increasingly scary place. Ask Marat Gelman, whose gallery made the mistake of hosting a show by a Georgian artist at a time when Georgians are the subject of official disapproval. Last week the gallery was wrecked by 10 masked men—"not vandals, nor hooligans from the street, but highly professional and experienced militants who came to do their job," says Gelman, who was badly beaten. Or ask art historian and curator Aleksandr Panov, attacked (but not robbed) by thugs days after he publicly condemned the attack on Gelman. Or ask ordinary Georgians who, increasingly, have been the victims of police extortion and skinhead attacks, among them 24-year-old carwash supervisor Irakly Bukiya. "We immigrants have always been second-class people in Russia," says Bukiya, who knew better than to call the police last week after he was beaten up in the Moscow Metro. "I know that the state is on the side of corrupt police and the skinheads."

Anti-immigrant attacks, a violent backlash against critical intellectuals—Russia seems to be getting uglier and uglier. Yet Russian President Vladimir Putin is defiant. Meeting with European leaders in Finland, he brooked no lectures. When EU ministers raised questions about corruption in his country, he noted that " 'mafia' is not a Russian word." As for Russia's fast-deteriorating human-rights situation and the recent murder of crusading journalist Anna Politkovskaya, he hinted that her death may have been organized by those wishing to discredit the Kremlin.

Though he initially remained mum about the wave of anti-Georgian violence sweeping the country, Putin has since condemned it. Yet he himself seems to be embracing an increasingly nationalist line. Illegal immigrants and "ethnic gangs" have "no place" in a "law-abiding country," Putin said earlier this year. Recently he called for ethnic Russians to be given a fixed quota of places in the country's open-air produce markets—traditionally controlled by immigrants from the Caucasus—in order to "protect the interests of the native Russian population." That truculent rhetoric has not gone unnoticed. The president's tone has given a "clear sign to bureaucrats and security services," says Svetlana Ganushkina, head of the NGO Civil Assistance. "Putin's words inspire nationalist movements growing across Russia."

Racism is hardly new in Russia. But never in modern times has it been sanctioned at such a high level of government. More than a thousand Georgians have been deported during the past month, says Vladimir Khomeriki, president of the Congress of Ethnic Associations of Russia, who claims that almost every Georgian-owned business has been visited by tax police or municipal inspectors. Police checks on people with non-Slavic features have become more frequent, as have violent attacks, according to Human Rights Watch, which has been unable to compile hard numbers because its activities were briefly suspended under new rules governing foreign NGOs. Last year some 300,000 people were fined for immigration violations in Moscow alone. This year, according to Civil Assistance, numbers are many times higher. Bukiya says he was beaten by police as well as skinheads in the past month: "They make us live as though it were wartime, never coming out of our bomb shelters."

No group is a better barometer of the new mood than the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, a nationalist organization that claims to be the most powerful NGO in Russia with 20,000 members and branches in 15 regions. It emerged last year after sponsoring protests in support of Aleksandra Ivannikova, a Russian woman who killed an Armenian taxi driver who she claimed tried to rape her. Its leader, Aleksandr Potkin, is a dapper 30-year-old lawyer who goes by the pseudonym Aleksandr Belov—a name derived from the Russian word for "white." He became a national media figure in October after anti-immigrant riots broke out in the northern Russian town of Kondoponga, forcing dozens of non-Russians to flee for their lives. "Guys from the Caucusus beat and raped girls at the disco," Belov complained on national television from Kondoponga in the aftermath of the riots, which left non-Russian-owned restaurants and businesses sacked and burned. "The people of Kondoponga expelled criminals from their midst."

It's not clear what role Belov's group may have played in the violence, but his creed is simple. "Russia for Russians!" he told NEWSWEEK during an interview at a stylish Moscow café. "Russia doesn't need immigrants for work. Russians can do everything without any foreigners. We don't need them here." He seems to nurse a particular grudge against migrants from Tajikistan. "They spread infections and rape Russian girls," he claims, as well as import the heroin that "has killed 100,000 Russians." Belov says he enjoys wide support among Russians, including "successful middle managers from companies like Gazprom, students and even journalists."

That's probably fanciful. But this week will bring a major test as nationalists gather to celebrate Russia's Day of National Unity on Nov. 4. "It will be our day," says Belov. "There will be five to ten thousand of our members on the streets of Moscow!" Meanwhile, Belov was recently appointed as an assistant to Duma deputy Andrey Savelyev of the nationalist Rodina faction and claims senior police and Security Service officers among his supporters."

If you choose to embrace communist thinking, as evidenced through your justification of Stalin's actions-unbelievable, so be it but don't pretend that the diversity in the world precludes the odoption of freedom and democracy throughout it. Just beucase there's differences, doesn't mean freedom can be won and that democracy isn't the highest ideal man has achieved politically thus far in its civilization. Freedom is a good thing Alex. Perhaps you cannnot realize this as it is something that you have not experienced.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally Posted by english-teacher

Read this:
Newsweek: Russia = State of Hate

Now you're out of arguments and start posting newspaper articles. I'm not surprised, you're thoughts looked like compilation of newspaper articles from the very beginning.

If you choose to embrace communist thinking, as evidenced through your justification of Stalin's actions-unbelievable, so be it but don't pretend that the diversity in the world precludes the odoption of freedom and democracy throughout it. Just beucase there's differences, doesn't mean freedom can be won and that democracy isn't the highest ideal man has achieved politically thus far in its civilization. Freedom is a good thing Alex. Perhaps you cannnot realize this as it is something that you have not experienced.

You do not discuss, you just state your beliefs like bad believes in God, but can not explain why. It's hard to talk to you, you do not listen, and nothing said can change your views a little bit. It's like talking to adept of some totalitarian cult (like jehovah witnesses and such) . They're exactly on the same level: they repeat the same, no matter what they hear in response.

As for justification of Stalin actions, leave your fantasy world and try to begin to thing, and try to analyze him without any bias.

As for freedom, I don't think you're right person to judge freedoms Russians have, since you've never been to Russia and do not know Russia. I didn't say freedom isn't a good thing. It's good, and there's plenty of it in Russia. Let's draw a line between democracy and western political system. It isn't the same, democracy is much wider concept and can exist in different forms.

P.S. You haven't answer my question who serves whom in US, if people are against the war but goverment continues the war, and remains silent to people's wishes. There're no such examples in Russia, you know. Actually Russian goverment did very little against people's will. Most action you condemn were approved by people, as it goes under democracy. And if Russians approve something their government does, they do not care about your opinion.

[english-teacher]

Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov

You try to apply some universal concept to all different countries you discuss. World is different, remember it.

Human rights are universal concepts except in the dark medieval places like Russia where totalitarian thinking again rules the day and freedoms are extinguished for citizens. Being "different" doesn't excuse the rampant loss of freedoms Russians have suffered under Putin.

Your continued defense of Stalin is horrific. Giving him "credit" in the face of the atrrocities he engineered speaks clearly to your inability to distinguish right from wrong. You have lost any moral compass, if in fact a socialist/communist is capable of even having one.

Defending Putin after he's dismissed elected official after elected official , taken over private businesses, and essentially re-socialized Russia stripping the country of democratic reforms is myopic. You are clearly living in denial and have no real world experience with democracy but only with oppression.

You would be better served if you read more Thomas Jefferson and wrote less on forums trying to convince people who actually know what freedom is that Russia is anything less than a corporatist state.

FYI: Using France as an example of anything good, meet, or right is laughable. The topic of this thread is whether Russia if free, if you have questions about American polls, start a new thread.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally Posted by english-teacher

Human rights are universal concepts

Yes, but there's no problem with my rights in Russia. I thought we speak more about political differencies.

Your continued defense of Stalin is horrific. Giving him "credit" in the face of the atrrocities he engineered speaks clearly to your inability to distinguish right from wrong. You have lost any moral compass, if in fact a socialist/communist is capable of even having one.

3 million people killed or imprisoned by political reasons is a huge number, but developping country up to the world's leaders level, that made possible for us to survive and win in WWII, is overweighting it, as I said. Having SU lost that war and consequenses would've been much more severe. Hitler killed 10 million innocent civilians in SU, and that would've been only a beginning. Stalin's brutal rule, though it sounds paradoxically saved our nation and our state, that's what he deserves credit for. Educate yourself.

Defending Putin after he's dismissed elected official after elected official , taken over private businesses, and essentially re-socialized Russia stripping the country of democratic reforms is myopic. You are clearly living in denial and have no real world experience with democracy but only with oppression.

For Russia current system is preferrable, because it combines democratic elections of president and centralisation, when local executive branch is controlled by central power. Under Eltsin governors became de facto heads of independent states, and Russia was on a brink of disintegration. Disintegration was in interest of local elites, but not in interest of people who wanted to have one Russia. Putin turned the situation around, and that met people's expectations, that's why this is popular in Russia.

Just to add, candidates for governors have to be approved by people's representatives in local Dumas. That's why President can't appoint someone against will of people. Appointment wasn't invented to opress people after all, it was invented to ensure governor's policy meets state policy and doesn't contradict it.

Private business? There're lot private enterprises in Russia, large, medium and small. State took over just strategic branches, that allowed to fill budget and stabilization fund with money. How is that bad thing? You know, Russia isn't the most attarctive place for investors because of purely natural reasons. So to develop our economy we need state to play role of the investor. To be investor, state has money. Money today means gas and oil. That's why they were taken over by the state. Since such actions are widely approved by people, I think this decision is quite democratic, because will of people is followed.

Putin re-socialized Russia, that means state turned his face to society and society gains a lot from state policy. Reforms only have any value when they improve life. Before lives of my countrymen were sacrificed for the sake of universal concepts (communism, reforms), that's unacceptable.

By the way, what do you mean by "errosion of democracy", there're wasn't any democracy under Eltsin. We have much more democracy, rights and freedoms today, Eltsin gave us tanks firing parliament, falsified elections, cartoon opposition and oligarchic media that praised hated by people Eltsin.

You would be better served if you read more Thomas Jefferson and wrote less on forums trying to convince people who actually know what freedom is that Russia is anything less than a corporatist state.

And you'd better read Jefferson, sit on your side of ocean and wouldn't try teaching others what to do today and what tomorrow. We're doing quite well and live quite freely. As Russian saying goes, "don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you where to go". Russians can care of themselves. When they're tired, they change the power. As for state-corporation I refuse to understand why it's bad. Corporations usually care much of their employees.

Using France as an example of anything good, meet, or right is laughable. The topic of this thread is whether Russia if free, if you have questions about American polls, start a new thread

This thread is like meeting of coal miners. The topic of discussion why miner Joe is so dirty. But when Joe says "look, you're just as dirty as I am, because we worked in the same mine!", they say: "It isn't a topic of discussion, we'll discuss it next time. Let's continue. Joe, why the hell are you so dirty?".

[english-teacher]

Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov

I refuse to understand why it's bad".

Finally, we have isolated the crux of the problem. You refuse to understand.

Dr. Andrei Illarionov speaks Russian Alex, maybe he can help you understand. In English he says that Russia is a corporatist state whose citizens have suffered substantial losses of freedoms.

You can email him through the Cato Institute at cato.org
He has more information and knows more than you. Open your mind sweetie and maybe you'll learn something.

[Atolla]

O my , O my, i am cracking up again. To all who criticise Russian Federation: In order to understand what is really going on, politically, economically+++ please read books and stop watching Fox News and CNN. You can't just go from communism to a democracy in a blink of an eye. It will need generations. I can assure you that it will be a bumpy ride BUT Russia/RF has always recovered from all of it's problems. We have done that throughout centuries and we certainly don't want to be told by other people( who doesn't have ethnical,cultural,historical knowledge ) as to how we should achieve it.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally Posted by english-teacher

Finally, we have isolated the crux of the problem. You refuse to understand.

Dr. Andrei Illarionov speaks Russian Alex, maybe he can help you understand. In English he says that Russia is a corporatist state whose citizens have suffered substantial losses of freedoms.

You can email him through the Cato Institute at cato.org
He has more information and knows more than you. Open your mind sweetie and maybe you'll learn something.

When you ask me to speak with Illarionov, does it mean that you have nothing else to say? I still wait for some answers to my questions and some direct replies to my points. I expected more of conversation, looks like you just admit that your understanding is limited to one or two newspaper articles and some self-performed analysis is beyond your potential.

Teacher, Atolla says right, read his opinion with all your attention.