Russia's not a democracy?

[english-teacher]

Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov

When you ask me to speak with Illarionov, does it mean that you have nothing else to say? I still wait for some answers to my questions and some direct replies to my points. I expected more of conversation, looks like you just admit that your understanding is limited ......

Your response is combative and unacceptable. Using this type of insulting rudeness furthers the stereotype that Russians are totalitarian thugs incapable of intellectual thought. These personal attacks diminish your argument and stifle discussion. Who wants talk with a bully? I'm done doing it.

As to Andrei Illaironov, take the time to at least look at his powerpoint on the cato.org website. Maybe you can learn something.
Good luck to you.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally Posted by english-teacher

Your response is combative and unacceptable. Using this type of insulting rudeness furthers the stereotype that Russians are totalitarian thugs incapable of intellectual thought. These personal attacks diminish your argument and stifle discussion. Who wants talk with a bully? I'm done doing it.

As to Andrei Illaironov, take the time to at least look at his powerpoint on the cato.org website. Maybe you can learn something.
Good luck to you.

Look, all I heard from you was two stereotypical points, that you were unable to elaborate, one newspaper article, that I took as source of your stereotypical views, and a few complains on my combatative responses. Russia.com forums once were well-known place for sharp discussions and word-combats. Stop complaining, stand up and fight for your points (not just declare them as the only truth everyone should accept without any doubt). You refuse to fight for your points, you refuse to reply to my points, and that is what we call "incapable of intellectual discussion". Your posts are empty, you refuse to elaborate your points, I can repeat that again, and this ins't an insult, it's just an ascertaining of the fact. If you don't like the fact, it's up to you to change it. Start real discussion at last, or do you want me to continue speaking to the wall?

[Atolla]

I am sorry to interupt this conversation... but i got a bs detector from the day i was born , and it started to beep when i read your replies english-teacher. Now i'am gonna go ballistic at you as you are a very ignorant person and you deserve it.

Originally Posted by english-teacher

Using this type of insulting rudeness furthers the stereotype that Russians are totalitarian thugs

Alex started a normal discussion with you. In a discussion, people might have different views on a point, so they exchange their views and it can get hot but in the end they don't have to agree with eachother. If you can't stand a hot discussion, well, learn it as it will help you in your real life. The stereotype you are talking about is in your head from Hollywood moovies about soviets. You promote USA's style of a democracy, but it only will work in USA as Russia is very different and you have to take ethnical, historical and cultural parts in to equation. Belive me, u don't know **** about Russians. You didn't only insult Alex now but also other russians. Learn to live with the fact that people might have a different opinion... and grow up ffs.

Originally Posted by english-teacher

Russians are totalitarian thugs incapable of intellectual thought.

The only thug without IQ i see here is actually you. Inteligent people have the ability to look at one thing in different angles.

Originally Posted by english-teacher

Who wants talk with a bully? I'm done doing it.

Yes. Do us all a big favor and go cry some where else ! Or learn how to have a discussion first.

Originally Posted by english-teacher

As to Andrei Illaironov, take the time to at least look at his powerpoint on the cato.org website. Maybe you can learn something.

Stop hiding behind this Andrei of yours and get your own opinions !!!

[nikto]

As to Andrei Illaironov, take the time to at least look at his powerpoint on the cato.org website. Maybe you can learn something.

Why would someone living in Russia need to view the powerpoint of another Russian in order to conclude whether or not he is living in a democracy? Believe me, people who don't live in democracies know it.

Ilaironov has an axe to grind. He was fired by Putin for publicly disagreeing with a government decision. That is bad form and he should have expected to have been dismissed.

The Cato Institute is a right wing "think tank" which has not been exactly infallible in its analyses of Russian and Ukrainian domestic issues.

Here is one view by a fellow libertarian -

Antiwar.com Blog · The War Party Conquers Cato?

As for Putin's appointment of governors, the fact you would mention this indicates you have little knowledge of what is happening inside Russia. As a political structure, a federation is difficult to govern even in a fully developed democracy with a long tradition of a rule of law and a highly developed, relatively corrupt free bureaucracy. It is almost impossible in a country such as Russia, where the rule of law is still in its infancy. These "elected" officials you refer to who, incidentally, were invariably elected in less than fair elections, built personal fiefdoms at the expense of the people residing in their regions. While the people suffer(ed) with less than adequate health and education funding, these "elected governors" lived in luxury, stealing from the very people they were "elected" to serve. Battling corruption throughout the Russian Federation is the paramount requirement at this time. That does not mean the country is not democratic.

Ultimately, those bleating most loudly about the "lack of democracy" in Russia are those who, because of a new political paradigm, have lost; lost power or access to unlimited wealth for which they did not work. And what better audience for them than Westerners who speak little Russian, do not understand Russia's politics, and who have no vested interest in ensuring Russians' standard of living and democracy improve?

[rasputinisgod]

Russia IS a democracy in her own style, just as the U.S. WAS a democracy in the American style, up until 2000. We have no right to tell the Russians to behave democratically when WE fix our own elections.

To the Russian people, I say that you should do this YOUR way. America didn't invent democracy-we just exploited it.

[rasputinisgod]

Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov

Now you're out of arguments and start posting newspaper articles. I'm not surprised, you're thoughts looked like compilation of newspaper articles from the very beginning.



You do not discuss, you just state your beliefs like bad believes in God, but can not explain why. It's hard to talk to you, you do not listen, and nothing said can change your views a little bit. It's like talking to adept of some totalitarian cult (like jehovah witnesses and such) . They're exactly on the same level: they repeat the same, no matter what they hear in response.

As for justification of Stalin actions, leave your fantasy world and try to begin to thing, and try to analyze him without any bias.

As for freedom, I don't think you're right person to judge freedoms Russians have, since you've never been to Russia and do not know Russia. I didn't say freedom isn't a good thing. It's good, and there's plenty of it in Russia. Let's draw a line between democracy and western political system. It isn't the same, democracy is much wider concept and can exist in different forms.

P.S. You haven't answer my question who serves whom in US, if people are against the war but goverment continues the war, and remains silent to people's wishes. There're no such examples in Russia, you know. Actually Russian goverment did very little against people's will. Most action you condemn were approved by people, as it goes under democracy. And if Russians approve something their government does, they do not care about your opinion.

You are right, Alex. We can't judge-especially since we have forgotten what a free society is and how it behaves.

[rasputinisgod]

Originally Posted by nikto

As to Andrei Illaironov, take the time to at least look at his powerpoint on the cato.org website. Maybe you can learn something.

Why would someone living in Russia need to view the powerpoint of another Russian in order to conclude whether or not he is living in a democracy? Believe me, people who don't live in democracies know it.

Ilaironov has an axe to grind. He was fired by Putin for publicly disagreeing with a government decision. That is bad form and he should have expected to have been dismissed.

The Cato Institute is a right wing "think tank" which has not been exactly infallible in its analyses of Russian and Ukrainian domestic issues.

Here is one view by a fellow libertarian -

Antiwar.com Blog · The War Party Conquers Cato?

As for Putin's appointment of governors, the fact you would mention this indicates you have little knowledge of what is happening inside Russia. As a political structure, a federation is difficult to govern even in a fully developed democracy with a long tradition of a rule of law and a highly developed, relatively corrupt free bureaucracy. It is almost impossible in a country such as Russia, where the rule of law is still in its infancy. These "elected" officials you refer to who, incidentally, were invariably elected in less than fair elections, built personal fiefdoms at the expense of the people residing in their regions. While the people suffer(ed) with less than adequate health and education funding, these "elected governors" lived in luxury, stealing from the very people they were "elected" to serve. Battling corruption throughout the Russian Federation is the paramount requirement at this time. That does not mean the country is not democratic.

Ultimately, those bleating most loudly about the "lack of democracy" in Russia are those who, because of a new political paradigm, have lost; lost power or access to unlimited wealth for which they did not work. And what better audience for them than Westerners who speak little Russian, do not understand Russia's politics, and who have no vested interest in ensuring Russians' standard of living and democracy improve?

CATO??? Oh, God. Not THEM.