WILL THERE BE AN ORANGE REVOLUTION IN RUSSIA?

[Marita]

Originally posted by Michal_PL

I'm surprised why you Russians make a big deal with this,,Polish occupation''.in Polish historiography it's a meaningless event.

I am not surprised it's a meaningless events in Polish historiography. If somebody invaded your country I think it would be important for you, but that time Poles invaded Russia, and not vice versa!

[Michal_PL]

Originally posted by Marita

I am not surprised it's a meaningless events in Polish historiography. If somebody invaded your country I think it would be important for you, but that time Poles invaded Russia, and not vice versa!

it's one exception against all Russian invasions on Poland.Poland spent one year and Moscow.Russian dominated Poland since 1717 to 1918 and then since 1944 to 1989.it's almost 25% of our history.

[Marita]

It's not an exception. Poland was always hostile. The last time was in 1920.
About 1944 - well, you'd prefer to stay under Germans as subhumans? I have doubts you'd survive then.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Marita

I am not surprised it's a meaningless events in Polish historiography. If somebody invaded your country I think it would be important for you, but that time Poles invaded Russia, and not vice versa!

I am afraid you both missed the point. Consider the following:

1. The invasion into Muscovy was rather personal decision of Rzeczpospolita's King and surely not Poland alone. Sigismund the III did not obtain full approval of the Parliament.
2. Mihkail Heller in his "Istorya Rossiyskoy Impierrii" says that the term "Poles" as invaders was inaccurate because it included Lithuanians and Cossacks.
3. Muscovian campaign was deplorable result of having to show solidarity with Lithuanian territorial appetites and was unncessary from purely Polish point of view.
4. Michal would probably like to say that victory was unexpectedly easy. It is difficult to believe that a crew of rougly 1000 people residing in Kreml for one year could dream of occupying the whole Mucovian state! The whole affair shows how weak Russia was at that time. It was meant as a dynastic shift, an over-ambitious trial to create gigantic federation composed of three independent states united only by one ruler. Interesting but absolutely impractical idea which is now distorted by today's nationalist perception. Do not forget that Ivan the Terrible was one of most serious candidates for the Rzeczpospolita's throne after last Yagiellonian King died in Cracow.

[Michal_PL]

Originally posted by Marita
It's not an exception. Poland was always hostile. The last time was in 1920.
About 1944 - well, you'd prefer to stay under Germans as subhumans? I have doubts you'd survive then.

in 1919 we just managed to take what Russia stole from us in XVIIIth century.

[Marita]

What? Brest and Grodno inhabited by Belorussians who became a divided nation?
Zbyszek
Nobody argues, Russia was very weak in the beginning of the 17th century. But neither this fact nor absence of parliamentary approval justifies or denies the fact of invasion.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Marita
...Zbyszek
Nobody argues, Russia was very weak in the beginning of the 17th century. But neither this fact nor absence of parliamentary approval justifies or denies the fact of invasion.

Marita, I do not try to justify the invasion, I just said it was not only exclusive Polish invasion.
Nationalists on both sides twist the past in order to seek national interest while this invasion served only the rulers and surely not the Polish nation. Will you tell me that Russian people were interested in burning Vilnius and killing so many innocent civilians in 1654? Should Russians apologize?