China is going to replace Russia as superpower against USA?

[Voyager13b]

Originally Posted by gs001

Marita
you mean any Chinese citizen who declare to immigrant to Siberia
will get money from Chinese government? are you joking?
then, you tell me how much money Chinese government will give
them as subsidy?
Voyager13b
Chinese are quite different from Mexican illegal emigration
Americans have enough money to hire Mexicans working for them.
and pay much more money to Mexicans than in their own country.
I don't think Siberians rich enough to pay Chinese,
on the contrary, most of Siberians live in poverty.
Chinese citizens go to Siberia just for opporunity,
and begin their own business.
As I know the amount of Chinese in Siberia is only about 200
thousands and most of them have visa.
Russian now seems to sensitive about everything, as if everyone in
this world wants to destroy you, US, China, EU, NATO, Islam......
you really need a psychopathist to cure your lunacy.

Well, if the Siberian population is so poor, how do they support the Chinese who you claim go there to start businesses? More important, why would the government of Russia allow them to do so at all? It would seem prudent for the Russian government to take steps to develop the economy of the area for their own citizens, rather than to support immigrants from another nation. Under your scenario, even though the region is poor, it offers more opportunity than the adjacent areas of China offer. Chinese workers go there and take what little money is available, and send it back home.

The net effect is exactly the same as what happens in the US, only on a smaller scale, and local economic conditions are different.

According to the Kremlin though, the number of Chinese crossing the border illegaly is growing at a fast pace, and the target isn't so much getting a job, as it is stealing natural resources to be sold at a high profit back in China, or on the world market. That can have an equally devestating effect on an undeveloped area too. After all, if resources cannot be managed, there will end up being little to develop in the future.

It's not lunacy to defend your borders from outside abuse. It makes good national sense.

Voyager

[gs001]

Have you ever been to Siberia?
As I know Siberia people only earn 1/3 of the average wage in Russia.
but the commodity price there is much higher than in China.
So a lot of Chinese transport Chinese goods to Siberia and sell
at higher price than in China.
Of course natural resource such as timber is another attraction to Chinese people, I have been to China-Russia border for several
times as a tourist, So I know the fact. It is Chinese
who make Siberia prosperous, if Chinese people don't go there
to do business, Siberian will not even survive.
Some Chinese businessman told me, the only things that Siberia people love is vodka, they are too lazy even to plant vegetable, so many
Chinese farmer go there to plant vegetable and sell to them.
If you government don't want Chinese to be in Siberia, you can order
them to leave, it is your right.
why don't you government try? then we wait and see what will happen in Siberia.

[whoinia]

Originally Posted by Francisw

read some news editorials predict China is going to be another superpower replace Russia in the future, well just want to listen what everyone thinks of this. do you think so?

Absolute BS! Chinamen are serious men, unlike the Soviet commirats they don’t export socialism.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Let me answer for Voyager.

Originally Posted by gs001

Have you ever been to Siberia?

I live at Russian Far East, which is also called "Eastern Siberia" on western maps.

As I know Siberia people only earn 1/3 of the average wage in Russia.

I'm afraid you know wrong. Average salary or pension here is higher than in European part. We have higher coeffcient to basic salary ("oklad"). And most of money-generating industries are located here, beyond Ural.

but the commodity price there is much higher than in China.

Price is determined by supply and demand. Usually, if buyers are poor, low demand lowers the price, because it isn't profitable to sell goods to people not able to pay.

So a lot of Chinese transport Chinese goods to Siberia and sell at higher price than in China.

They sell very cheap things of the worst quality I've ever seen. I personally never buy anything from them, it's not my level. And I think their crap can surely cost less in China. But your statement

It is Chinese who make Siberia prosperous, if Chinese people don't go there
to do business, Siberian will not even survive.

does not describe reality. Siberia contributes to prosperity of northern China, because millions of chinese (I count those who works in Russia and their families) live only on money they earn in Russia, selling crap and working on fields and construction sites as cheap non-qualified labor force.

Some Chinese businessman told me, the only things that Siberia people love is vodka, they are too lazy even to plant vegetable, so many
Chinese farmer go there to plant vegetable and sell to them.

It's common problem with cheap labor force, everywhere. Working Russian expects higher pay for his work than just a small percent of a harvest he grows, demands good woring conditions, social guaranties, etc. That's why we hire chinese to do dirty work for symbolic pay. And I don't think we do wrong. We're free for more complicated jobs. Unemployment in Siberia isn't that high.

As for vodka, it's just a sterotype. As Russian joke says, average American sees Russia as following:
"A big country somewhere around nothing, where on huge snowly plains of Siberia, people in ushankas run around Kremlin, with bear and samovar full of vodka, which they drink undissolved right from matreshkas". After hearing this joke Russians laugh loudly.

why don't you government try? then we wait and see what will happen in Siberia.

We'll lost cheap crap on markets and cheap workers. It's bad, because we aren't really fans of dirty poorly-paid work, but we'll be forced to do it after Chinese are gone. It's bad, but not lethal. Consequences for chinese would be worse. They won't find such good jobs back in China.

[gs001]

>I'm afraid you know wrong. Average salary or pension here is higher than >in European part. We have higher coeffcient to basic salary ("oklad"). >And most of money-generating industries are located here, beyond Ural.

I know a pilot in Siberia who earn less than 160 USD/month,
I also know an aviation engineer in Irkutsk who told me he even have no money to buy ends meat.
who is cheating? you or them?


>They sell very cheap things of the worst quality I've ever seen. I >personally never buy anything from them, it's not my level. And I think >their crap can surely cost less in China. But your statement

That is true, those rascal businessmen damaged the reputation of Chinese
goods, and made honest Chinese businessmen hard to enter Russian market.



>It's common problem with cheap labor force, everywhere. Working Russian >expects higher pay for his work than just a small percent of a harvest >he grows, demands good woring conditions, social guaranties, etc. That's >why we hire chinese to do dirty work for symbolic pay. And I don't think >we do wrong. We're free for more complicated jobs. Unemployment in >Siberia isn't that high.

>We'll lost cheap crap on markets and cheap workers. It's bad, because we >aren't really fans of dirty poorly-paid work, but we'll be forced to do >it after Chinese are gone. It's bad, but not lethal. Consequences for >chinese would be worse. They won't find such good jobs back in China.

I think that is the secret of China's fast development
Chinese government make our currency exchange rate so low that everything
is competitive in world market. (though it is unfair to Chinese people).
purchasing power for USD is quite different in different nations
when Chinese earn 1 USD in Siberia and take it back to China, he can
buy 3 times of goods than in Russia, that is why poor Chinese go to
Siberia.
As I know Russia's product have no competitiveness in world market
So you have to sell your natural resource such as oil, natural gas, timber....
how can you keep your "good woring conditions, social guaranties, etc"
in this situation, if the oil price drop down?
China now has been the fourth largest economy(and if we keep on this speed we will exceed Germany and become to third largest economy next
year), and Russia has been elbowed out of top 10.
I think in immediate future when those poor Chinese in Siberia find
it is not worth working in there, they will come back.

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally Posted by gs001

I know a pilot in Siberia who earn less than 160 USD/month,
I also know an aviation engineer in Irkutsk who told me he even have no money to buy ends meat.
who is cheating? you or them?

Surely they were cheating. There're no such salaries in Russia. 160$ is about 4500 roubles. Even cleaners, nurses and other traditionally poor-paid people usually find ways to earn more. When a number of years ago I graduated from university and had nothing, but diploma - no experience at all, no record (it is important to get a good job), I found job for 400$ a month. Only one year after I already earned twice as much a month. If yesterday student is able to earn 800$/month, do you think it's really considered high income in Russia? Btw, pilot (both civil and military) is one of the best paid professions. My salary is growing every year, but I still do not hope to match income of pilot I know before he retires.

That is true, those rascal businessmen damaged the reputation of Chinese
goods, and made honest Chinese businessmen hard to enter Russian market.

Chinese goods are crap regardless of honesty of their businessmen. You can use any motherboard/ video card/network card/power unit in your computer, made in Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Korea. But never use anything chinese if you have a choice. It's unwritten rule majority of Russians follow.

I think that is the secret of China's fast development
Chinese government make our currency exchange rate so low that everything
is competitive in world market. (though it is unfair to Chinese people).
purchasing power for USD is quite different in different nations
when Chinese earn 1 USD in Siberia and take it back to China, he can
buy 3 times of goods than in Russia, that is why poor Chinese go to
Siberia.

You're referring to very natural thing again. You know, if one earns 1$ in US, in Russia he can buy 3 times more goods than in US.

As I know Russia's product have no competitiveness in world market
So you have to sell your natural resource such as oil, natural gas, timber....

Chinese products are competitive only due to low price. We don't have tens of millions workers ready to work for shelter and food, that's why our products cost more and we have difficulties on world markets.

how can you keep your "good woring conditions, social guaranties, etc"
in this situation, if the oil price drop down?

Just like we kept them during dark years of Yeltsin's rule.

I think in immediate future when those poor Chinese in Siberia find
it is not worth working in there, they will come back.

That would mean that China has become as developped as Siberia. Your statement underlines that it isn't so at the moment.

[gs001]

>Surely they were cheating. There're no such salaries in Russia. 160$ is about 4500 >roubles. Even cleaners, nurses and other traditionally poor-paid people usually >find ways to earn more. When a number of years ago I graduated from university and >had nothing, but diploma - no experience at all, no record (it is important to get >a good job), I found job for 400$ a month. Only one year after I already earned >twice as much a month. If yesterday student is able to earn 800$/month, do you >think it's really considered high income in Russia? Btw, pilot (both civil and >military) is one of the best paid professions. My salary is growing every year, >but I still do not hope to match income of pilot I know before he retires.

Interesting, but I heard a lot of Russians in Siberia immigrated to west
part of your country, why? for a less paid job?:-)


>Chinese goods are crap regardless of honesty of their businessmen. You can use any >motherboard/ video card/network card/power unit in your computer, made in Taiwan, >Malaysia, Singapore, Korea. But never use anything chinese if you have a choice. >It's unwritten rule majority of Russians follow.

That is your opinion, everyone in China know that the first class goods sell to USA, EU, JP, the second class goods for domestic use, the third class goods sell
to Russia and other CIS nations. So I think you never saw first class goods made
in China. Our trade value with USA, EU, JP is around 200 billion USD respectively, but the trade value with Russia is only less than 20 billion,
so it is obvious that the proportion of low quality goods made in China is not so
high, right? :-)


>Chinese products are competitive only due to low price. We don't have tens of >millions workers ready to work for shelter and food, that's why our products cost >more and we have difficulties on world markets.
&
>Just like we kept them during dark years of Yeltsin's rule.

I hope you keep on like this:-)


>That would mean that China has become as developped as Siberia. Your statement >underlines that it isn't so at the moment.

Siberia is developed? are you joking?:-)

Picture:
Russian packman come to China everyday and bring large package of "crap" back to Russia for sell.