China is going to replace Russia as superpower against USA?

[Alex_Ivanov]

Originally Posted by gs001

Interesting, but I heard a lot of Russians in Siberia immigrated to west
part of your country, why? for a less paid job?:-)

I could say for sure: most people moving to central Russia from my region are older people, pensioners and pre-pensioners. It's understandable - pension/prices ratio is better in central regions. Another category moves to Moscow. The capital is center of business in many countries, not just in Russia, so they seek for new opportunities there. But compare any Siberian town with non-capital towns in central regions - Bryansk, Kaluga, Voronezh. If you're not pensioner, you'll prefer Siberia. If you think otherwise, you didn't travel enough across Russia.

That is your opinion, everyone in China know that the first class goods sell to USA, EU, JP, the second class goods for domestic use, the third class goods sell
to Russia and other CIS nations. So I think you never saw first class goods made
in China.

You think wrong again. Your view on exports is somewhat primitive. You suppose chinese sort their goods into three groups and organise separate marketplaces for Russians, Americans, and Chinese, so that Russians can't enter American marketplace (armed guards prevent it) and vice versa. Excuse me, but it's laughable. Market is market even in china. If you have a presentative living and working there, you can buy absolutely anything chinese industry has to offer (if it isn't so, explain why I'm wrong). Different goods with different prices. And I can assure you that I saw many different electronic devices from china, cheap and expensive, but they're all crap compared even to taiwanese devices (though they're basically the same nation). We say that chinese have hands growing not from proper place (no offence), because we sincerely do not understand that strange phenomena of "chinese quality".

Our trade value with USA, EU, JP is around 200 billion USD respectively, but the trade value with Russia is only less than 20 billion,
so it is obvious that the proportion of low quality goods made in China is not so
big , right? :-)

I'm not sure Americans do not have any complains to "chinese quality" either. But price/quality ratio suits them, like it suits many Russians, just not me. If your chinese-made Surecom switch breaks down every few months and you have to buy new one, it can be still cheaper than one good taiwanese-made 3com or TrendNet, but it doesn't cost your nerves.

Btw, Voyager, have you seen chinese crap in US? I'm almost sure you have. At least once.

Siberia is developed? are you joking?:-)

Since there're much more chinese seeking for opportunities in Siberia, than Siberians seeking for opportunities in China, Siberia is more developped, just like the West in general is more developped than Russia. China and India have the same feature: they're quite rich countries, but their population is quite poor due to numbers, so many of them hardly can survive without making crap and selling it, or without growing tomatos on Russian fields. So China may have larger economy (GDP) than Russia, but lower living standarts. GDP per capita (10700$ vs 6200$) illustrates my words.

[gs001]

>I could say for sure: most people moving to central Russia from my region are older people, pensioners and pre-pensioners. It's understandable - pension/prices ratio is better in central regions. Another category moves to Moscow. The capital is center of business in many countries, not just in Russia, so they seek for new opportunities there. But compare any Siberian town with non-capital towns in central regions - Bryansk, Kaluga, Voronezh. If you're not pensioner, you'll prefer Siberia. If you think otherwise, you didn't travel enough across Russia.

You show me a very bright vision of Siberia, but unbelievable.


>You think wrong again. Your view on exports is somewhat primitive. You suppose chinese sort their goods into three groups and organise separate marketplaces for Russians, Americans, and Chinese, so that Russians can't enter American marketplace (armed guards prevent it) and vice versa. Excuse me, but it's laughable. Market is market even in china. If you have a presentative living and working there, you can buy absolutely anything chinese industry has to offer (if it isn't so, explain why I'm wrong). Different goods with different prices. And I can assure you that I saw many different electronic devices from china, cheap and expensive, but they're all crap compared even to taiwanese devices (though they're basically the same nation). We say that chinese have hands growing not from proper place (no offence), because we sincerely do not understand that strange phenomena of "chinese quality".
>I'm not sure Americans do not have any complains to "chinese quality" either. But price/quality ratio suits them, like it suits many Russians, just not me. If your chinese-made Surecom switch breaks down every few months and you have to buy new one, it can be still cheaper than one good taiwanese-made 3com or TrendNet, but it doesn't cost your nerves.

We don't worry about Russian's opinion about Chinese goods, because
it is such a small market.


>Since there're much more chinese seeking for opportunities in Siberia, than Siberians seeking for opportunities in China, Siberia is more developped, just like the West in general is more developped than Russia. China and India have the same feature: they're quite rich countries, but their population is quite poor due to numbers, so many of them hardly can survive without making crap and selling it, or without growing tomatos on Russian fields.

Go out to find opportunities is Chinese tradition, rich people go to
rich area and poor people go to poor area, so you can see Chinese
do business everywhere, even in North Korea. are they developed?

>So China may have larger economy (GDP) than Russia, but lower living standarts. GDP per capita (10700$ vs 6200$) illustrates my words.

It is not quite difficult to exceed Russia in GDP per capita
China as a vigorous and fastest growing economy definitely can win
a match over a country only enjoy selling their natural resource.

BTW China calculate GDP always exclude the consideration of purchasing power, so we call our GDP per capita 1703 in 2005, or we will be the second largest economy, USA will feel uncomfortable:-)

[omygod]

Originally Posted by Marita

Lucylee
As I consider you are a Chinese citizen, aren't you? What's your opinion on mass expansion of your compatriots to Russian Far East? Do you find it right or wrong?
Sincerely.

Marita, what is your opinion on mass expansion of Russians to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania? Do you find it right or wrong?
Sincerely

[omygod]

Originally Posted by Marita

I was not speaking about any conspiracy but it is a mass phenomenon and the Chinese government doesn't bother itself with the problem of migration of its citizens. In fact it patronizes mass migration to Siberia.

Why didn't the government bother itself with the problem of migration of Russians? In fact it patronized mass migration of Russians to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Russians illegally occupied houses and apartments formerly belonged to Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians.

Russians even forced high population of Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians to move to Siberia. Many of them died in Siberia.

[Voyager13b]

Alex,

Sorry for the delay, but I missed the thread for a few days. Your series of posts is outstanding, and speak clearly to the nonsense posted by omygod. I have enjoyed reading them, and I agree on all counts. Omygod tried to paint the situation in Siberia as something different than what is seen at the US southern border, and then shot himself in the foot with the reply you first responded to.

As for the quality of imported goods from the far east, I suggest that Japan builds the highest quality overall, followed by Taiwan. China is all over the place in quality. Much of the stuff they sell is cheap junk (like postwar Japan became famous for here during the 1950's to late 1960's). Some items are better in quality, as the importing company here might insist on higher standards, and either pays more for it, or invests in the factory producing it.

Almost always though, Chinese imports are only popular here in the US because they are cheap. People shopping for quality first usually buy elsewhere. I liked your example of the Chinese vs Taiwanese switch. Would you trust your data center to a Chinese switch when you can buy much better for only a few more Rubles?

Omygod has a cartoon view of Russian people, and a Chinese nationalist's view of China. Even if he has spent time in Siberia, he has been careful to keep his eyes closed during his visits. When I visited Baikal even the many people who provided a room for tourists made far more than what his pilot friend claimed to earn. The people I met had cars, comfortable living space, children, food, and plenty of smiles to go around.

I suspect that illegal Chinese workers in Siberia are there either to steal resources, or to fill low paying jobs that Siberian people would prefer not do do themselves. The same reasons that Mexican illegals come to the US. The Chinese are not there to make Russia a better place. They are there because Russia IS a better place already.

By the way, Soviet era jokes in the US about Russian people are pretty much just jokes anymore. Americans poke fun at everyone, including themselves. Since the breakup of the Soviet Union, many, many Russians have come the the US to work, or to stay. They are identified as Russians by their accent (as I am identified by my accent when in Russia), but as a group, Russian people are very accepted in the US. Russians act like Americans, their children grow up in American society without any cultural stress, and people of faith have churches here that have been part of American culture since the late 1800's.

No matter what stereotypes were accepted by the American public during the Soviet era, the truth is that Russians have never been accused of being welfare or social service leaches in the US. The reason is simple. Russian people have pride, and work for their money. Many work in very high paying jobs here, and are considered to be very well educated as a group.

Despite the cold war, Russians are very welcome in the US. Omygod needs to pay more attention to fact, rather than fiction about Russian people. Thanks for taking the time to set the record straight from the perspective of someone who lives in the area, Alex. Great posts.

Voyager

[Voyager13b]

Apologies to omygod. Somehow, I confused your name with gs001, and used it everywhere in my post. Just make a mental note to substitute gs001 for omygod, and it will read right. Sorry for the error....

Voyager

[omygod]

Originally Posted by Voyager13b

Omygod has a cartoon view of Russian people, and a Chinese nationalist's view of China. Voyager

You need to pay more attention to fact, rather than fiction. I am neither a Chinese nor a Chinese nationalist. Stop running your mouth and label people you don't know.