cuba.com

[benCA]

for a second there, i thought i was at cuba.com

[JoseM]

wow a web page about cuba... why dont you try http://www.granma.com (official cuban communist page) that only show communist propaganda... why dont you try http://www.longlivefidelcastro.com ? i guess you are going to find so many truth there... you fool, u dont find all the info u need in stupid communists propaganda web pages... go to miami or venezuela and talk to the cubans, like i did, then u will know the truth, or go to the cuban organizations. Any pro communist can make a web page in favor of fidel castro and his bloody revolution.

[Nateddi]

Originally posted by JoseM
Any pro communist can make a web page in favor of fidel castro and his bloody revolution.

Are you saying that Cuba was better before Castro.

If that is what you are trying to say, you are so ignorant, I won't even talk with you. Batista was a right-wing fascist military dictator. He sold all of Cuba to American corporations to exploit the Cuban population for cheap labor. The few at the top ofcourse fleed to Miami.

I haven't been a communist all my life, Jose. Ive always been spoon-fed anti-castro propaganda. Only until I started using my head, I was able to weigh the pro-castro and anti-castro arguments against each other. He is surely no perfect leader, but Cuba is a hell of a lot better off now than they were before him, and better than they will be if capitalism takes over again.

[JoseM]

u dont know what you are saying, you are just a little kid that claims that cuba is better now than before, my ****ing ass, i know cubans that lived there before castro and after castro and they tell me that cuba was much better with batista than with fidel, WTF i talked to cubans that actually lived there. who the hell did you talked to?
You are just a kid with nothing better to say than "communism in Cuba is great" but im very sure u havent talk to any cuban yet. let me tell u something i have talked to them, and trust me they know more of what you know from ur house. They suffered castro tyranny and poverty, tell me something, did people in batista goverment risked their lives with crappy rafts desesperately to escape? NO, well let me tell you something my ignorant friend, people in cuba are trying to escape with any means neccessary, even risking their lives with crappy rafts where the sharks are. It is obviously u dont know the crap you are talking about. Get out of ur house and stop being a geek and start talking to real life cubans instead talking something u dont know.

[Nateddi]

Jose, personal insults don't help your argument.

If you want to make an argument that the fascist military dictator Fulgencio Batista who sold off Cuban land to American corporations for cheap labor is not even comparable to Fidel Castro. Fidel isn't perfect but we both know that Batista was a tyrant.

If you think Batista was better, please say so.

All of your argument are against dictators. Every argument against communism which you posted on ThePhora and Che-Lives does not even contain the word "capitalism" you don't know much about communism as an economic system, moreover you don't even know capitalism. You seem to be very anti-dictator, and so am I. I don't support Stalin or Mao (aside from being a revolutionary), I am vocally opposed to Pol Pot. The problem with you Jose, is you only don't like dictator history. You don't know much about Marxism-Leninism. So please, if you want to critisize dictatorships, start with Fascist Batista.

[rikbe]

In general, communists countries became better with communism than before. But not much. Compare North with South Korea. East with West Europe.

Since the collapse of USSR and without it's financial support, Cuba's economy is crumbling.
Castro could only do improvements with the help of Soviets.

Certain capitalistic countries are not doing much better: take a look at South America and Africa. What these capitalistic failures have in common with the communistic is that they are all non democratic.
Neither capitalism, neither communism can work without a democracy.

But is democracy possible with communism? I don't think so, people, after some time will always choose for capitalism because communism is against human nature.

A communistic revolution is only possible in countries with very low living standards and can only be maintained by an autocratic regime and by repression. Final result is always an economic disaster and chaos.

[Nateddi]

Originally posted by rikbe
In general, communists countries became better with communism than before. But not much. Compare North with South Korea. East with West Europe.

Since the collapse of USSR and without it's financial support, Cuba's economy is crumbling.
Castro could only do improvements with the help of Soviets.

Rikbe, North Korea and Eastern Europe did not have revolutions, they were for the most part taken over by the Soviet Union. I was referring to Vietnam's end of French imperalism, China's end of nationalist dictatorship, Russia's end of peasantry and feudalism (although one can argue about a *possible* future with Kerensky), and Cuba's end of fascsit exploitation by the military dictator Fulgencio Batista (who Jose is apparently quite fond of).

Certain capitalistic countries are not doing much better: take a look at South America and Africa. What these capitalistic failures have in common with the communistic is that they are all non democratic.
Neither capitalism, neither communism can work without a democracy.

I agree that democracy is key. However the undemocratic capitalist dictatorships (such as pre-Castro cuba) were/are all supported by the "democratic" capitalist machine (US). The United States has crushed numerous Marxist movements. Both popular revolutions as well as democratic elections (such as with the case of Chilean Marxist elected president Salvador Allende overthrown by the CIA in a military coup to instate the military right-wing dictator Pinochet for 20 years of death-squad dictatorship).

But is democracy possible with communism?

Democracy is possible with communism, communism is impossible without democracy.

after some time will always choose for capitalism because communism is against human nature.

Perhaps developed socio-democratic nations which are only able to sustain successful mixed economies because of American corporations, perhaps they can hold free elections and allow right wing candidates in (France is a prime example). However in a developed communist societies, right-wing parties would not get any support (consider they even exist) because:
1) They would have to start from scratch
2) Will not be funded by corporations and/or existing Capitalist nations......... because non will exist.
3) Classes will be nearly eliminated, therefore there would not be a [big] gap between the richer and the poorer. There won't be special interest groups or even the elite media owned by the richest 1%.

Notice, by right-wing I refer excusivelly to economics. If a party wants to push other issues often labeled as right-wing (pro-life, death penalty, etc), they will not be effected by the circumstances which I listed. The amount of government on personal issues should be very little in my opinion (pro-choise, anti-death penalty, etc), however democracy allows all possibilities to happen.

Democracy would essentially be voting on issues and personal rights. The economic sectors would all be operated democratically in a non-private / autocratic manner.

A communistic revolution is only possible in countries with very low living standards and can only be maintained by an autocratic regime and by repression. Final result is always an economic disaster and chaos.

If every coutry with low living standard had a communist revolution, American capitalism will collapse with it. The New World Order exploitation brings a return to child labor and other human rights abuses, this time in our friendly "capitalist dictatorships" of the third world. Without these we cannot survive without going back to the 19th/early 20th century capitalism dominated by sweatshop labor and no regulations.