Zvezda

[Nonson]

A quick and rough question. Is there enough attraction(strength)in the 'historical discretes' from the Enlightenment to prevent the 'instability' from a truely soul-jarring explosion? Peace

[This message has been edited by Nonson (edited 18 July 2000).]

[Sato]

Not in the "historical discretes" themselves so much as in the intellectual attitude of that era which sketched a direction. a similar attitude could be found also among certain educated circles of ancient Greece and China, to name but two obvious examples.

Since WWII we have seen a steady growth in the furtive critique of Enlightenment values, some flippant and some well-targeted. But the core of those values have continued to provide a standard for those who want to be serious about building a tomorrow.

Such building requires: a secure society where families can live in reasonable tranquility; extensive education, both in the Liberal sense, and in a rigorous sense; a mature community of trust; open, honest inquiry, on the part of the public and the professions.

These conditions are supported to varying degrees by a kind of archipelago of people girdling the planet, really meta-national in nature. Something akin to this existed in Asia around the end of the First Millenium AD -- the system of Buddhist monasteries and institutions of learning. This system succumbed to the contraction of power into respective political states. The present archipelago is always threatened by the analogous machinations of modern states.

We could say that civilization is a sustained moral effort complemented by appropriate mental disciplines. It is also averse to exclusion of anyone who wishes to develop and apply his talents to benefit others. While we struggle with our subjective perplexities, it is not to our credit if any one of us neglects to advance civilization in the above sense.

S

[Nonson]

IMMANUEL KANT An Answer to the Question: What is Enlightenment? (1784) Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when it cause lies not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] "Have courage to use your own understanding."--that is the motto of enlightenment. This is what I had in mind when I asked the crudely formed question regarding 'historical discretes' to which you posts seem to point to. I read Kant in his Enlightenment Project as enclaving social structures in that he showed little empathy with the common, unlearned, man. In fact, this Anser to the Question turns out to be ascathing attack on the under-class. Of course, there was that Frenchman with awesome rhetorical powers and weak discipline with which Kant sought to do battle. Is Russia heading for a Kantian/Hellenistic social structure of enclaves and city states? Peace

[This message has been edited by Nonson (edited 19 July 2000).]

[Sato]

Yes, Kant was the ultimate professor, and according to those who studied with him, his personality was full of excellent qualities. He had a hard time, by the way, with the Prussian state, and his life did contrast the idea of Liberty with interdicting police.

Concerning "evolutionary clusters" of learned people (whether specialists or foci for expansive social movements), this seems to be a natural functional reality that extends back perhaps to the beginning of the earliest societies (read anthropological reflections on this by Mead). Such elitism occurs almost like a diffusion process, and it is not to be condemned, but encouraged.

Let's take this idea of diffusion further in a modern context. If we juxtapose the boundaries of sovereign states, and consider these states to be as crystal lattices of wealth and power (periodic arrays of homogeneous members), then any 'impurities' in these arrays will spontaneously migrate toward junctions between lattices under the influence of thermal excitation (social frictions).

This can also happen within an array (if we find interstitial sites or lattice irregularities analogous to such as cafes and universities).

In a manner allowed by historical conditions those who find in themselves the aptitude and strength to walk new paths, migrate to these special sites, where most creative new ideas are brought to fruitful expression, in extraordinary communities.

My prior reference to civilization must be related to this process. Without the stable periodic crystal arrays, the interesting boundaries would not be possible. A state has a positive function, to create conditions of security and domestic tranquility. This is part of the overall sustained moral effort, and everyone participates.

We will not beat the solid state physics analogy into the ground.

I have to go. Duty calls.

S

[Octavio]

Sato,

This discussion has meandered some, but now you have turned to a topic that really interests me: social science in terms of something like kinetic theory of gases. And the solid state does seem to be a rich basis for useful metaphors. By the way, I am an electronics engineer. I would say that electrical engineers, in the forefront of engineering, are leaders in the actual design work for the 'steady state' or stable systems to which you have likened 'sovereign states.'

The 'mayoral-city manager' form of city government, popular in the United States, can be expanded to a global scale. The structures that make a city run, such as water, power distribution, communications, sanitation, roads, traffic control, zoning, environmental protection, etc. are all presided over by engineers. Engineering worldwide is global 'city management.'

One other thing about engineering, it is extremely international. Applied physical science is a kind of default common ground for all people.

As for Nonson's query about Russia's future, leaving the colorfulness of parochial behaviors aside, Russia just has to straighten out its management, clean up some corruption, and get down to a lot of nuts and bolts work. Nothing romantic or particularly dramatic about it.

The big nations, i.e., Russia, India, China, and the United States all have similarly scaled problems, and so belong to a special family with a lot to share. Lets stop rumbling threats and tearing down potential bonds of trust, roll up our sleeves, and get to work advancing such conditions as Sato has suggested.

Octavio

[Nonson]

Greetings Sato, even though your crystal lattice analogy is contra to Rousseau (Discourse on Inequality)it is nonetheless intriguing, even seductive, to my unprepared senses. For I am neither an engineer nor a mathematician, but I'm quite certain that there is a constructional beauty that is not available to me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The 'clustering' of which you speak I'm somewhat familiar with the process, being able to see it in many different economic and social models. This same concept seems to harken back to Aristotle's POLITICS. If you are knowlegeable on the work could you demonstrate how it might be applied to modern-day Russia? Thank you for your patience.

[This message has been edited by Nonson (edited 20 July 2000).]

[Sato]

Well, you are leading to me toward a deep plunge into a project to which I cannot do sufficient justice.

Interestingly, I had a discussion years ago with a friend about a closely related theme.

Let us begin with Aristotle's ideas.

The "material cause," population in a territory, is in Russia very heterogeneous, peoplewise and landwise. Very problematic.

The "formal cause," a constitution, does exist in Russia, but not functionally. There are elements of kingship, oligarchy, and democracy in Russia that exist in a blur; which leads to consideration of

"efficient cause," lawgivers and politicians. Here is where Russia is staggering just now.

As for "final cause," (to Aristotle, "the good life,") well here is where I must turn to other considerations.

Has a eudaemonian idea of "flourishing" triumphant, self-actualization ever been a paramount value in Russsia? I think not.

So, the foregoing leads me to a conclusion that the entire history of Russia is non-Aristoltelian, and will remain so for as long as Russia continues to meet her destiny.

Here is a project for you: Construct an essay in your mind concerning a comparison of the life and thought of Lev Tolstoy with that of Aristotle. This is a striking contrast. If I were to choose some central character in the tapestry of Russian lore, achievement, and potential, to represent "final cause' then Lev Tolstoy would be that character.

Yasnaya Polyana defines a center in the landscape of Russian politics more important than Moscow, and certainly more relevant than Athens.

I suggest that you first read Maxim Gorky's reminiscences of Lev Tolstoy, to set a tone.

I have tried to imagine Tolstoy and Aristotle actually meeting and having a long dialogue. The idea is hilarious!

S